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Old 06-14-2014, 01:58 PM
 
504 posts, read 672,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312 View Post
I oppose toll roads. If I wanted to drive on toll roads, I'd live in the Northeast. I view toll roads as a regional thing that have no business in a Western state.

If I'm going to pay daily to commute to work, I'd rather pay to ride a subway or commuter train where I'd have human interaction.
Are you willing to pay fuel taxes then? The roads are not free, something has to give.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:05 PM
 
504 posts, read 672,502 times
Reputation: 926
Pretty good info.

http://tti.tamu.edu/group/iiap/files...x-BROCHURE.pdf

Federal and Texas State gas tax has not been raised since 1991. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, hate raising taxes and hate toll roads.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,885 posts, read 3,927,590 times
Reputation: 3759
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
You pay either through taxes or tolls. At least tolls levy the costs on people who use specific roads and on a per mile or similar basis.
If we ever do get together for some beers, we'll likely have a long talk/debate on general taxes vs. user fees and the pros and cons of each.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:14 PM
 
9,285 posts, read 9,932,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synchronicity View Post
If we ever do get together for some beers, we'll likely have a long talk/debate on general taxes vs. user fees and the pros and cons of each.
I'm in for beers most any time. We will make that happen.
My thumbnail sketch goes like this. In a city/region growing like crazy and state/federal funds limited it's better to bite the bullet and build toll roads. It's also important to note that 635 can be travled for free anytime. The toll lanes are optional.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,885 posts, read 3,927,590 times
Reputation: 3759
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I'm in for beers most any time. We will make that happen.
My thumbnail sketch goes like this. In a city/region growing like crazy and state/federal funds limited it's better to bite the bullet and build toll roads. It's also important to note that 635 can be travled for free anytime. The toll lanes are optional.
My thoughts are more global than local, both in geography (not just thinking about DFW) and impacts beyond just "roads". But again, that's a multi-hour convo over beers. And mebbe pizza. A friend has been saying good things about Zoli's.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:47 PM
 
6 posts, read 7,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312 View Post
I have not driven on a toll road in Dallas.

I believe roads should be free.

At the same times, decades ago, in most American cities, the investments in mass transit infrastructure were not made. I think in general cities should be more dense, more like New York City.

However, there is a reason that I do not live in New York City. I can't afford the cost of living.

Life is trade offs. I live in a less dense environment so that I can get a better COL and avoid toll roads.
Roads are not "free" if you're paying a fuel tax. I don't understand how people don't seem to comprehend this. Also, if you're moving to a low tax area such as Texas, you're going to get it one way or another, either by property taxes or sales taxes. People love to complain about paying taxes, but don't want to pay for toll roads either. If people continue to flee further north and commute, how do they expect for the infrastructure to be built? Life is definitely full of trade-offs.

And if you want to be in a dense city, move to one, because that's never going to happen in Dallas in the foreseeable future. Melissa, Van Alstyne and Celina will be the next hot megaburbs while Plano and Frisco will be considered "old and ghetto" by the locals/transplants in about 20 years before Dallas becomes a dense city.
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:45 PM
 
4,780 posts, read 2,662,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina_Sol View Post
Roads are not "free" if you're paying a fuel tax. I don't understand how people don't seem to comprehend this. Also, if you're moving to a low tax area such as Texas, you're going to get it one way or another, either by property taxes or sales taxes. People love to complain about paying taxes, but don't want to pay for toll roads either. If people continue to flee further north and commute, how do they expect for the infrastructure to be built? Life is definitely full of trade-offs.

And if you want to be in a dense city, move to one, because that's never going to happen in Dallas in the foreseeable future. Melissa, Van Alstyne and Celina will be the next hot megaburbs while Plano and Frisco will be considered "old and ghetto" by the locals/transplants in about 20 years before Dallas becomes a dense city.
Most United States cities are not dense.

The idea of megaburbs is one that is all too palatable to me. I think metropolitan areas should be limited in the space they take up. I believe in building up and not out.

I have no immediate plans to move north of 635. I am not a candidate for suburbia. I'm unmarried, young and childless. That's not the suburban type. At the very least, to live in suburbia, you need to be in a secure, multi-year LTR. But it is more a fit for the married with children types.

Your idea of Plano & Frisco being called old and ghetto in the future has merit based on previous patterns. Inner ring suburbs have a way of getting outdated fast.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:18 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,576 posts, read 34,290,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I'm in for beers most any time. We will make that happen.
My thumbnail sketch goes like this. In a city/region growing like crazy and state/federal funds limited it's better to bite the bullet and build toll roads. It's also important to note that 635 can be travled for free anytime. The toll lanes are optional.
You should add "for now." Because they won't always be optional. Sooner or later we'll get charged tolls to drive on roads that used to be free.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Blah
4,153 posts, read 8,195,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
You should add "for now." Because they won't always be optional. Sooner or later we'll get charged tolls to drive on roads that used to be free.
Agreed.

Toll fees is the boiling water and we're the frogs. You can't just mark everything Toll roads or other wise will flip out, you have to slowly turn a highway into a Toll road one lane at a time.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:59 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,576 posts, read 34,290,563 times
Reputation: 28402
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTRay View Post
Agreed.

Toll fees is the boiling water and we're the frogs. You can't just mark everything Toll roads or other wise will flip out, you have to slowly turn a highway into a Toll road one lane at a time.
Yup. I'm sick of the Texas state government picking my pockets for the wrong things while refusing to fund other things...all either because they are terrified of not getting re-elected or are serving other masters. They sure as hell aren't working for us.

To add insult to injury, I recently renewed my vehicle's registration online. Not only was I charged an extra fee for the privilege, but I was also sent a brand-new set of ugly black and white seven-digit license plates. According to the DPS's website, this was done because license plates "lose reflectivity" over time. BS. They only issue these new plates because they show up better on toll cameras and red light cameras, and they're easier for automated plate scanners of any kind to read. Basically they just want it to be easier to ticket and track us, and we're even paying for the privilege. THANKS.
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