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Old 06-21-2014, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
2,885 posts, read 3,921,422 times
Reputation: 3759

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFJag View Post
I found an article that discussed what went into being a NMSF, and the quote that stood out was "being named a National Merit Scholar has been a goal for the 17-year-old, who has given up vacation days, weekends and endless hours after school as he prepared for the PSAT, the test that qualifies students for the scholarship." Plano ISD leads state in National Merit Scholars | Dallas Morning News.
that's because articles like that sell papers. I get that nowadays things are "more competitive" than they were Back In My Day (although I think the extent that it may be is overblown), and all that, but I was NMSF and I was a lazy slacker who didn't even do homework (and had the bad GPAs to prove it). My closest friend in high school was also NMSF, and although he was a Good Student and all, his "prep" for the PSAT consisted of taking a few sample tests, so I dunno, maybe the equivalent of one day or something? (I didn't even take sample tests until it was time for the SAT)

I'm sure a few of the NMSFs back then (my school had 10 or 12 out of...750 total students? 800? Something like that) spent scads of time "prepping" for the tests. Even back then we had the stereotypes - there were some Asian kids with "tiger moms" (the term didn't exist but the personality sure did) who were studyaholics, there were the bookish science kids (nerds or geeks or whatever), all that was there, just like it is now, slightly different names and distinguishing dress but same basic categories of cliques that fill high schools today. Thing is, an article that says "Jane Doe goes to school and generally gets her studying done, and did really well on the PSAT" doesn't make for an exciting read, does it?

Call me old school, but I believe the old saying "you know when you start 'prepping' for the SAT? Kindergarten."
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Dallas area, Texas
2,315 posts, read 3,093,916 times
Reputation: 4056
I was a NMSF in Plano and my parents were against studying at all. I had to get my homework done at school because I wasn't allowed to study at home. There was no SAT prep for me.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:32 PM
 
114 posts, read 107,140 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by nawvtanzi09 View Post
I do agree with the original poster in regards to the recent comparison of Lovejoy ISD to the top schools in DFW. This topic of top schools in DFW has been discussed many times and I agree Lovejoy ISD is a good district but compared to HP, Southlake, Plano (W Plano & Central), Coppell and Flower Mound it certainly falls behind.I will just point to the following threads that discuss the top schools in DFW based on Actual DATA points instead of subjective articles.

DFW High Schools ranked by SAT 2012-2013
//www.city-data.com/forum/dalla...at-2012-a.html

2014 National Merit Semi-Finalists (Dallas, Arlington, Plano: 2015, homes, private schools)
//www.city-data.com/forum/dalla...finalists.html

And I point to these external news sources and the TEA (Texas Education Agency)

USA.COM
Texas Public School Performance School District Rank

Big D magazine
Which of the Best Dallas Suburbs Spend School District Dollars Most Effectively? | FrontBurner | D Magazine

US News and Report
Best High Schools Rankings | Top High Schools | US News

I also gathered some statistics on the schools you asked that Lovejoy be compared too...

TEXAS EDUCATION AGENCY
2013 Accountability Summary
I listed the “Performance Index Summary” numbers below. Click on the links to view the pdfs.
Here is what each number represents:
1. Student Achievement
2. Student Progress
3. Closing Performance Gaps
4. Post Secondary Readiness

Lovejoy ISD (Collin County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d043919.pdf

1. 97
2. 50
3. 93
4. 98

Plano ISD (Collin County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d043910.pdf

1. 90
2. 39
3. 79
4. 88

** Please note that Lovejoy ISD had higher scores in every statistical category...


Carroll ISD (Tarrant County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d220919.pdf

1. 97
2. 45
3. 94
4. 98

Flower Mound (Lewisville ISD in Denton County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d061902.pdf

1. 88
2. 35
3. 80
4. 89

Coppell ISD (Dallas County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d057922.pdf

1. 92
2. 37
3. 81
4. 96

Highland Park ISD (Dallas County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...c057911001.pdf

1. 97
2. 42
3. 95
4. 96



Here are additional schools in Collin County within a lot of peoples search area that have higher “Performance Index Summary” numbers than Plano ISD… I didn’t pull all ISD’s in Collin County, just the ones I have been recommending to people based of their budget and commute.

Frisco ISD:
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d043905.pdf

1. 94
2. 41
3. 89
4. 93

Allen ISD:
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d043901.pdf

1. 93
2. 38
3. 87
4. 95

Prosper ISD:
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d043912.pdf

1. 93
2. 41
3. 86
4. 94
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:59 PM
 
114 posts, read 107,140 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
Care to respond to this one? You conveniently skipped right over it in your quest to prove Lovejoy is better than Plano. Lovejoy's claim to fame is it's all-Honors / AP track classes so one would think the district would over-index in NMSF.

And I don't buy the BS about taking the ACT in 7th grade and never again; there's too much riding on the line for sophomore & junior scores (National Merit full ride scholarships, for one) that a student would be a fool not to take it high school, especially if the scores were Duke TIP-worthy in 7th grade. Plus, the College Board wipes pre-9th grade scores off a student's record unless specifically requested to keep it on for college admissions....though most colleges would wonder why the student never re-tested and would trust more recent scores more!

And I'm not a pro-Plano person...graduated from HP and currently live in Dallas (although I work in Plano) so it will be private schools for us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovejoy_family View Post
My kid has already taken the ACT and she was only a seventh grader. What are the percentage of students taking the score? I know Lovejoy encourages all of our students to take the SAT/ACT, do other schools do the same or is it only college bound students who tend to score higher? As more data becomes available I'm hoping you continue to do legitimate research and see the trends. A lot of what is posted here is opinion and manipulated for a desired result. US News, USA.com and Big D magazine don't have any reason to present falsified statistics...

So what is the deciding factor to decide the best schools? Is it SAT, ACT, TAKS, STAAR, gifted and talented, IB or how the school stacks up internationally?
Please show where I said she was never taking the SAT again? We fully plan to take the ACT again, and by the way my child is an incoming 8th grader and you are correct that she did take the ACT as part of the Duke TIP program.

Also I asked several questions in the above post. I don't recall any of those being responded too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
@Lovejoy_Family, again...care to respond to these facts that show Lovejoy lags Plano ISD considerably? You've conveniently skipped over my TWO posts but continued to respond to later posts.
I wasn't ignoring you. I just knew the response to your posts would take more time than I had available at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
Lovejoy had 3 NMSF; Plano ISD had 78. Plano is 15X larger than Lovejoy so to put the Plano NMSF on Lovejoy's scale, 78 / 15 = 5.2

Even adjusted for size, Plano has 73% more NMSF than Lovejoy (5.2 vs. 3).


I don't know how you can possibly keep saying Lovejoy ISD is better than Plano? Lovejoy isn't bad; it's certainly a top 10-15ish area high school, but it's not in the same league as Plano, HP, Southlake, Flower Mound and Coppell. Sorry. It's most definitely in the next tier of schools....which is not a bad place to be!
Below are the TEA's comparison numbers for the six ISD's you named. If you look at the numbers you can easily see how I keep saying why I prefer Lovejoy to Plano:

TEXAS EDUCATION AGENCY
2013 Accountability Summary
I listed the “Performance Index Summary” numbers below. Click on the links to view the pdfs.
Here is what each number represents:
1. Student Achievement
2. Student Progress
3. Closing Performance Gaps
4. Post Secondary Readiness

Lovejoy ISD (Collin County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d043919.pdf
1. 97
2. 50
3. 93
4. 98

Plano ISD (Collin County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d043910.pdf
1. 90
2. 39
3. 79
4. 88

Carroll ISD (Tarrant County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d220919.pdf
1. 97
2. 45
3. 94
4. 98

Flower Mound (Lewisville ISD in Denton County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d061902.pdf

1. 88
2. 35
3. 80
4. 89

Coppell (Dallas County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...ct/d057922.pdf

1. 92
2. 37
3. 81
4. 96

Highland Park ISD (Dallas County):
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...c057911001.pdf
1. 97
2. 42
3. 95
4. 96


So based off this data I think your statement was close, but you switched a few names around...

It probably should have read...
Plano isn't bad; it's certainly a top 10-15ish area ISD, but it's not in the same league as Lovjeoy, HP, Southlake, and Coppell. Sorry. It's most definitely in the next tier of schools....which is not a bad place to be!

I will fully concede that Plano ISD currently has the best NMSF program. However if we decide to go that route I will still leave my children in Lovejoy.
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Old 12-21-2014, 07:14 AM
 
9 posts, read 11,122 times
Reputation: 27
I noticed Lovejoy_family left off some of the less than flattering campus ratings.
Out of five possible distinctions, Puster Elementary received none.
Hart Elementary only received one.
Lovejoy Elementary did well with 4 out of 5 distinctions.

Lovejoy_family is probably not aware of these ratings, because the superintendent has yet to send out a notice of how poorly these schools performed.
The only thing stopping Lovejoy ISD from becoming a great school is the leadership. The school board, parents and taxpayers allow the district administration to spoon feed them carefully filtered information and believe that to be the whole truth.

Parents should do their own homework.

As a parent whose kids have earned 4 college degrees I can tell you the only scores that matter to colleges are your SAT/ACT and class ranking. If you ace those, you can pretty much pick where you want to go.
Since LISD's lackluster scores have been pointed out, LISD has made advances in this area. Definitely heading in the right direction.

Getting in college is the first step, surviving college is the next, and Lovejoy ISD's policies of retesting, and gift grading have set up too many kids for failure in college.

All the rest of the accolades Lovejoy ISD loves to tout have to do with real estate and selling it and will never help our children get ahead.


Puster
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...c043919104.pdf
Hart
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...c043919102.pdf
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:32 PM
 
114 posts, read 107,140 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovejoySchools View Post
I noticed Lovejoy_family left off some of the less than flattering campus ratings.
Out of five possible distinctions, Puster Elementary received none.
Hart Elementary only received one.
Lovejoy Elementary did well with 4 out of 5 distinctions.

Lovejoy_family is probably not aware of these ratings, because the superintendent has yet to send out a notice of how poorly these schools performed.
The only thing stopping Lovejoy ISD from becoming a great school is the leadership. The school board, parents and taxpayers allow the district administration to spoon feed them carefully filtered information and believe that to be the whole truth.

Parents should do their own homework.

As a parent whose kids have earned 4 college degrees I can tell you the only scores that matter to colleges are your SAT/ACT and class ranking. If you ace those, you can pretty much pick where you want to go.
Since LISD's lackluster scores have been pointed out, LISD has made advances in this area. Definitely heading in the right direction.

Getting in college is the first step, surviving college is the next, and Lovejoy ISD's policies of retesting, and gift grading have set up too many kids for failure in college.

All the rest of the accolades Lovejoy ISD loves to tout have to do with real estate and selling it and will never help our children get ahead.


Puster
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...c043919104.pdf
Hart
http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...c043919102.pdf

In the top of your post you say that two of the Elementary schools didn't receive positive distinctions Puster received one and Hart received none.

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/cgi/sa...ry.sas&subj=RE

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/cgi/sa...ry.sas&subj=RE


Then you close your post by saying only SAT/ACT and class ranking matter... [mod cut] it seems to me you only look for the negative.

By the way, go to page 5 and 6 for Top 25% in Closing the Performance Gaps. You will only find one of your precious P l a n o schools (out of 44 Elementary schools), but all three Lovejoy elementary schools are closing the gap... We have a large growth rate and it will take time to get the new kids up to speed.

I don't understand some of the posters constant need to try to put Lovejoy down. Similar rocks are thrown at Prosper and Frisco ISD, both of which are great districts.

Last edited by RonnieinDallas; 01-05-2015 at 05:33 PM.. Reason: Outing someone is prohibited. See TOS
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Old 01-10-2015, 07:18 AM
 
9 posts, read 11,122 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovejoy_family View Post
In the top of your post you say that two of the Elementary schools didn't receive positive distinctions Puster received one and Hart received none..
This is incorrect.
I said that Puster received none and Hart received one.
Please refer to post and original links to confirm accuracy.

While state tests do not directly impact college admittance, they are used to evaluate campuses and districts by parents and home buyers.
Puster boundary lines include very high end $million+ homes.

Since real estate interests have been, and continue to be, the driving force in all PR and positive press about Lovejoy ISD, (while ignoring major issues), I can only hope that these low performance scores will motivate special interests to fix the schools for the KIDS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovejoy_family View Post
Then you close your post by saying only SAT/ACT and class ranking matter... [mod cut] it seems to me you only look for the negative..
That's not a fair statement. I think it is positive that LISD's SAT and ACT scores have improved. I think this year we outperformed Allen ISD!

Ignoring issues and problems do not fix them, only by recognizing them and working to fix issues will LISD ever live up to its potential. Sadly, too many folks, including our current leadership would rather resort to smoke and mirrors than do the hard work of getting things right.
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:27 AM
 
1,261 posts, read 2,152,262 times
Reputation: 1900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovejoy_family View Post

I don't understand some of the posters constant need to try to put Lovejoy down. Similar rocks are thrown at Prosper and Frisco ISD, both of which are great districts.
You do realize that you're doing the exact same thing to Plano ISD? Your entire subtext throughout this thread has been "Plano schools = bad!", plus a near-hysterical defense of Lovejoy ISD with manipulated/purloined statistics.

I don't see anywhere in this thread where people have "put down" Lovejoy ISD.

Rather they've made a very good case of calling out the LISD administration on the fact that school performance and the cost and caliber of the homes in the district are out of alignment.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:45 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 10,037,427 times
Reputation: 3961
All anyone has to do is look at the Self-Inflicted Drama in THIS Thread (or the other 5 to 10 threads like it) and they can already know Why to Stay the Jell Away from Lovejoy.
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Old 01-10-2015, 03:25 PM
 
44 posts, read 37,325 times
Reputation: 60
We're in the LISD and I've seen no evidence of the internet drama cross over into real life here. My kids are elementary age and are thriving. Teachers and administration have been great, and I really like my neighbors and their kids.

The schools are among the top in the state and the metro area and are steadily improving. I don't think the bashers have argued that it isn't. If "it could be better" or "it isn't as good as [my district or HISD]" are the worst criticisms that can be levied, then that is high praise. I'm all for making them better, as is every other parent. I could do without the internet snarkiness though; it seems quixotic and about something other than improving education IMHO.

Disclaimer: I'm not a real estate agent.
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