Why the hostility towards suburbanites? (Dallas, Plano: how much, landscaping, safe neighborhoods)

[Lakewooder]

Laura I don't need you to tell me what I am upset about - and I am not stacked on top of anyone here in Lakewood (outside is a different story) ..besides that comment was tongue-in--cheek.

[EasilyAmused]

LOL. I'm so glad to see Dallasites and Houstonians having something in common. The x-burbs think we are the big, bad city and we...well we just don't think about them at all.

I went to college in Dallas, and if I ever had to live there again I don't think I would stray too far from the Park Cities.

The burbs are fine and all, but the time I spent in one for work reasons bored me to tears. I just think if people would get over their irrational fear of big cities, move-in and avoid the commute, the better off everyone would be. To each his own though.

[hamiltonpl]

Only the City of Dallas has the chance of becoming a world-class city. When someone chooses the 'burbs over the City, it hurts our entire region.

Suburbs constantly try to lure Dallas companies (and sports teams) to move from Dallas. There is no regional cooperation. Suburbs and exurbs have one goal: to suck Dallas dry. Get the money, the jobs and the people. Leave Dallas to rot. Suburbs are the parasites on Dallas' back. Because of Texas' laws that allow rural areas to give big tax incentives -- the suburbs can offer great deals to companies. Dallas can't match it. These Texas polices encourage sprawl.

Plano, McKinney, and Frisco have zero chance of becoming world-class. When people don't even consider moving to the City of Dallas, and instead only look in CoCo, it dilutes the power of the City.

When the city gets old -- people move to the next place. Just look at East Plano. It's thought of as old and run down -- even though most of the homes are from the 1970's.

Similarly, when their structures get "old," corporations will move to another city. We must provide a reason, other than cheap land, for companies and people to stay here. Only the City of Dallas offers that chance. We have to become world-class. Dallas has to retain companies and people in its core. Otherwise, we become Detroit.

People are certainly stacked on top of each other in Collin County. Homes in Collin County are placed incredibly close together. They are even tighter than much of East Dallas, North Dallas, and the Park Cities. Therefore the excuse that "I am seeking a rural lifestyle" is mere pretext. Dallas has many of places that offer elbow room. You just have to give Dallas a shot. Most people just hear "Frisco" and never look in Dallas.

Dallas itself is becoming more urban. And that is crucial to maintaining jobs in the city. We need to have more businesses downtown.

A region must have a strong urban center to survive. Otherwise, this place becomes just another ghost town. When the resources dry up, companies will move to the next new and shiny place that offers those rural tax incentives. Only Dallas offers that chance of becoming a unique place. Frisco and Plano could be plopped in any outlying area in any place in the country. We need something special. And Dallas is the only place that has a shot.

[nativeDallasite]

Originally Posted by hamiltonpl

People are certainly stacked on top of each other in Collin County. Homes in Collin County are placed incredibly close together. They are even tighter than much of East Dallas, North Dallas, and the Park Cities. Therefore the excuse that "I am seeking a rural lifestyle" is mere pretext. Dallas has many of places that offer elbow room. You just have to give Dallas a shot. Most people just hear "Frisco" and never look in Dallas.

Not in my case. When we say "rural" we don't mean a chock-a-block subdivision in Allen or McKinney. We mean multiple acres on a road that begins with FM or RR and ends with numbers. I want my walk to the mailbox to take at least 10 minutes. We're not looking for mere elbow room. If I just wanted that, I know where to look and Frisco, Plano, Allen, and McKinney don't make the list. Those suburbs are for people who want above-average schools and who don't want to do any yardwork. I don't even want to be able to see the road from my front door.

As for Dallas being world-class...it doesn't have a chance until it grows a soul and has a good school district. (Lakewooder, please don't step in with the whole Lakewood-supports-its-schools stuff...we know it does, and we also know most of the DISD is crap.) Dallas itself doesn't seem to have a shred of respect for its neighborhoods or its people, and I suppose until that happens people aren't going to give a squirt of pi$$ for the city if they're hellbent on moving to the suburbs. Dallas has suffered for decades from extremely poor urban planning and it's going to take a while to undo that damage...if it can be undone at all. In the meantime, you can't really blame people for taking the easy way out, especially when they don't have any personal history in the city.

[EasilyAmused]

People are living in Frisco now??? How horrible a commute is that to Downtown? Wow, things sure have changed in the past 12 years.

[nativeDallasite]

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

People are living in Frisco now??? How horrible a commute is that to Downtown? Wow, things sure have changed in the past 12 years.

When I was in high school, Frisco was BFE. Now the DNT goes all the way to Prosper.

I don't see how people stand living in Frisco; the traffic sucks.

[Lakewooder]

Rep points on that one hamilton - a bit more expository than my visceral vitriol.

[Spree]

>> People are living in Frisco now??? How horrible a commute is that to Downtown?<<

That would be brutal. I don't think that everyone who lives in Frisco works downtown, though.

[hamiltonpl]

Originally Posted by nativeDallasite

Not in my case. When we say "rural" we don't mean a chock-a-block subdivision in Allen or McKinney. We mean multiple acres on a road that begins with FM or RR and ends with numbers. I want my walk to the mailbox to take at least 10 minutes. We're not looking for mere elbow room. If I just wanted that, I know where to look and Frisco, Plano, Allen, and McKinney don't make the list. Those suburbs are for people who want above-average schools and who don't want to do any yardwork. I don't even want to be able to see the road from my front door.

As for Dallas being world-class...it doesn't have a chance until it grows a soul and has a good school district. (Lakewooder, please don't step in with the whole Lakewood-supports-its-schools stuff...we know it does, and we also know most of the DISD is crap.) Dallas itself doesn't seem to have a shred of respect for its neighborhoods or its people, and I suppose until that happens people aren't going to give a squirt of pi$$ for the city if they're hellbent on moving to the suburbs. Dallas has suffered for decades from extremely poor urban planning and it's going to take a while to undo that damage...if it can be undone at all. In the meantime, you can't really blame people for taking the easy way out, especially when they don't have any personal history in the city.

Of course I can blame them. If people took time to investigate the neighborhoods of Dallas, they'd find wonderful areas. Instead, they move to the 24,463rd red-brick house on the right in Frisco.

Few people in the suburbs really seem invested in the area. They move here for a little while, work at Initech, and then find another job in another city three years later. I want Dallas to work. That's why I've invested here, and it's why I'm staying.

C'mon, who do you want as a neighbor? Someone who is not invested in the area, looking for next shiny thing 500 miles away? Or someone who loves their house and neighborhood like Lakewooder and I?

We fight for our neighborhood. We fight to make it better and cleaner. It's a place you want to live forever. Not just 3 years.

[nativeDallasite]

Originally Posted by hamiltonpl

Of course I can blame them. If people took time to investigate the neighborhoods of Dallas, they'd find wonderful areas. Instead, they move to the 24,463rd red-brick house on the right in Frisco.

Sure they would, but where would they send their kids to school? Not everyone can afford private school and not everyone can afford to live in the zones for the only schools in Dallas worth a second glance. I think a lot of people go to the suburbs because they feel that the educational opportunities in Dallas are inadequate. And people can bleat on about national merit scholars all they want, but the DISD does look scary on paper.

Few people in the suburbs really seem invested in the area. They move here for a little while, work at Initech, and then find another job in another city three years later. I want Dallas to work. That's why I've invested here, and it's why I'm staying.

On that I do agree. A lot of transplants don't care about Dallas's future and many of Dallas's new residents are transient.

C'mon, who do you want as a neighbor? Someone who is not invested in the area, looking for next shiny thing 500 miles away? Or someone who loves their house and neighborhood like Lakewooder and I?

You can have that out in the country too, you know. There are more options than Lakewood/everyone loves Dallas and suburbs/nobody gives a crap. It's not just black and white.

We fight for our neighborhood. We fight to make it better and cleaner. It's a place you want to live forever. Not just 3 years.

That's good, but what about the people who can't afford to live in that area? Where are they supposed to go? I don't know if you've noticed this, but housing in areas of Dallas with relatively low crime and at least average schools is astonishingly expensive. When I was a kid, my part of town had a bowling alley, a Braum's, a Joske's, an ME Moses, etc. It was a very average neighborhood. Now those houses are being torn down and replaced with mini-mansions costing over $1 million apiece. Some people in Dallas are worried...rightly...that their neighborhood could be next. They could be taxed out of the area of town that they helped to make desirable, or they can hold on and watch the area that they know and love be completely destroyed by people who care more about square footage, media rooms, and wine grottos than about the community they've just bought into (and are helping to destroy). A turn-of-the-century craftsman in a conservation area is just not in everybody's budget, and it takes a pretty brave person to be the first "gentrifier" on the street. It's a big gamble.

It seems to me that middle-class Dallas is practically being forced to flee to the suburbs as one of two things happens: their neighborhoods deteriorate because of crime, illegal immigration, or some other factor or combination of factors, or their neighborhoods are torn down and replaced with vulgar mini castles spaced ten feet apart, just like in the suburbs except on a slightly larger scale, and they watch helplessly as the less devoted neighbors cash out and property taxes skyrocket. It's crap.

Where is a good part of Dallas for a family to move to making under $100k a year with a housing budget of $200k and children who are going to attend public school? Don't even make me laugh by suggesting Lakewood.