Why the hostility towards suburbanites? (Houston, Dallas: salon, neighborhood, to buy)

[EasilyAmused]

From my observation of the x-burb trend, that being the wayyyy out burbs, is that people are not willing to live in smaller houses that need some TLC, in order to be close to work. I don't think they are willing to live in anything under 2,400 sq. ft. either. They would rather drive upwards of 2 hours a day to live in a heavily finanaced $300,000 house that is brand new on a brand new street. They can attain a millionaire lifestyle on a middle-management salary. But in the end is it worth it? Time out of your life, away from the children, risking your life on the freeways and missing your children's sporting events?
I don't know if Dallas' traffic is as bad as Houston's, I haven't lived in the Big D for some time now. But around here its not uncommon to spend 10-15 hours a week driving to a burb just so you can live in a mini-mansion built in 6 months.
I've lived in both xterra and central urban and I can see it a pretty even choice for families. Nice house, white schools, typical Texas public education, long drive, no trees and chain amnenties OR small, older house, great location, same Texas public education but possibly more socially gritty,or stretching for private tuition, no commute, trees and culture/dining.

To me its an easy choice, I prefer my investment to be in the land my sticks sit on. And now that I have my work situation worked out, I was finally able to live where I wanted. When the big twister/hurricane/recession comes, I can sell the "location" lot and go buy a mini-mansion in the burbs for cash if I want to, and I'm not at the mercy of my insurance company to rebuild or the economy to recover. Anyone remember the 80's??? A twister/recession comes in a burb, I have a 50k lot next too 200,000 others that are just the same.
Plus I really hate driving and traffic. Can't stand it. And I really like good, individually owned restuarants.

There is only so much more expansion that can occur before the whole thing blows up. There is only so far the suburbs can stretch from a city core and still support employment. I know everyone in the x-burbs get so excited about their CityMarketYeOlTownSquare things and believe corporations will start opening in the droves in these areas. The reality is CEOs, Upper management, Old Money Oil Companies, have worked their butts off so they can live like bazillionaires in the "right part of town." They are not going to open offices in the burbs, commute there in order to have employees, they have plenty they can hire in immediate areas. In Houston, we are starting to build upwards in areas that were once termed the burbs (ie Uptown/Galleria) because its just getting too darn hard to drive around here and people need to be close to work. And I am happy to say, the anti-commuters are starting to revitalize neighborhoods that were once stable middle class, but were left for the bright shiney things to the north and south. Surprisingly, many are just rehabbed and people are just once again "dealing with" only having a 1500 sq. ft home on a 5,000 sq ft. lot in order to be close to the core. In the past year, I have met many people like myself that are returning from suburbia for a better quality of life, or actually living one outside a car.

We are a little bigger than Dallas, but this could be the future for Dallas too. As in all things, at some point the rubberband does break.

[lh_newbie]

Originally Posted by ExCali

Get used to more people moving to Dallas and the surrounding suburbs. You and others are posting that the people living in the suburbs are not as proud of where they live. Many are just as proud as you if not more. I LOVE FRISCO! But I don't knock people who choose to live in the city or any other suburb. You're living in the past of how nice things were back then. Well, I hate to break the news to you but Dallas will continue to grow in population and more suburban subdivisions will be built.

For the record, I do think that people like Lakewooder that have lived in an area for 20+ years are more passionate about their areas. It is hard to say that the people in an area that just doesn't have the history are proud of where they live. Pride takes many years to ensure it's not just a passing fad.

I've been going to my HOA meetings over the last month as a proposed development has come into light that we are just now getting information. I am absolutely amazed at the number of people that have lived in my neighborhood for 30+ years. One lady moved into her home in 1976! They _BUILT_ their home and still live in it today. This pride and dedication doesn't show itself in the early boom days of an area like Frisco.

I just want to shed some light on the perspective. Comparing pride in the two areas is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Brian

[nativeDallasite]

Originally Posted by lh_newbie

For the record, I do think that people like Lakewooder that have lived in an area for 20+ years are more passionate about their areas. It is hard to say that the people in an area that just doesn't have the history are proud of where they live. Pride takes many years to ensure it's not just a passing fad.

I've been going to my HOA meetings over the last month as a proposed development has come into light that we are just now getting information. I am absolutely amazed at the number of people that have lived in my neighborhood for 30+ years. One lady moved into her home in 1976! They _BUILT_ their home and still live in it today. This pride and dedication doesn't show itself in the early boom days of an area like Frisco.

I just want to shed some light on the perspective. Comparing pride in the two areas is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Brian

When I was in HS a lot of the people in my neighborhood were the original owners of the houses; they raised their families there in the 1950s-1970s and were dying off in the 1990s and early 2000s. Now the vultures are swooping in and wrecking the place.

[lh_newbie]

Hey, are you calling me a vulture?

[nativeDallasite]

Originally Posted by lh_newbie

Hey, are you calling me a vulture?

If all you care about is making money off the value of your lot and selling it to someone who's going to tear your house down and build a mini-mansion in its place...then yes, I suppose I am.

Attitudes like that are destroying the neighborhood I grew up in. It's happening all over Dallas. No neighborhood is safe, and if LH is also falling victim to this then I definitely won't be buying a house there.

[Lakewooder]

EA makes some good points and made me laugh. Yep there are some opportunity costs to buying way out and waiting for the build-out before you could possibly make any money (or avoid losing it, foreclosures - etc.)

nD's old neighborhood inside LBJ is appreciating at 20-something % (consistently) East Dallas, LH and Park Cities all showed 9% appreciation in the last report. Maybe some of that N Dallas appreciation is due the the teardown phenomenon but still -- we are talking real money. It is a way for the ordinary working stiff to insure a solid retirement, instead of taking years off his/her life driving, paying astronomical vehicle and gasoline costs..

[lh_newbie]

Originally Posted by nativeDallasite

If all you care about is making money off the value of your lot and selling it to someone who's going to tear your house down and build a mini-mansion in its place...then yes, I suppose I am.

Attitudes like that are destroying the neighborhood I grew up in. It's happening all over Dallas. No neighborhood is safe, and if LH is also falling victim to this then I definitely won't be buying a house there.

Actually, we are investing in renovating our home, so no, I would not be classified as a "vulture" as per your description. Whew!

Beyond that, my wife and I bought in this area because we want to live here for a VERY long time. After the holidays, I am going to propose to my HOA that we begin going down the path of getting a neighborhood stabilization overlay to preemptively ensure that we don't become a tear down neighborhood... or at least if we do, the new structures fit in architecturally with the neighborhood.

[CallMeLaura]

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

From my observation of the x-burb trend, that being the wayyyy out burbs, is that people are not willing to live in smaller houses that need some TLC, in order to be close to work. I don't think they are willing to live in anything under 2,400 sq. ft. either. They would rather drive upwards of 2 hours a day to live in a heavily finanaced $300,000 house that is brand new on a brand new street. They can attain a millionaire lifestyle on a middle-management salary. But in the end is it worth it? Time out of your life, away from the children, risking your life on the freeways and missing your children's sporting events?
I don't know if Dallas' traffic is as bad as Houston's, I haven't lived in the Big D for some time now. But around here its not uncommon to spend 10-15 hours a week driving to a burb just so you can live in a mini-mansion built in 6 months.
I've lived in both xterra and central urban and I can see it a pretty even choice for families. Nice house, white schools, typical Texas public education, long drive, no trees and chain amnenties OR small, older house, great location, same Texas public education but possibly more socially gritty,or stretching for private tuition, no commute, trees and culture/dining.

We looked at houses that needed 'a little TLC' and it was going to cost a fortune on top of the actual purchase price of the house. We don't care to spend every moment of our free time doing construction or pay someone to do it or live in the mess while it's happening.

We looked in Dallas city limits, but didn't fall for the "wrought iron bars are decorative!" bit. We also didn't want to have to ride 2 hours to get out of city traffic and on to the twisties.

As for risking my life in my daily commute, the worst obstacle I have is a dog lying in the hallway.

People have different values and needs and I don't put down areas like Lakewood even though I wouldn't live there if someone gave me on of those overpriced houses...

[Texan#1]

Man, I'm back in town for the holidays and I'm doubting coming back to live here when I graduate. The suburban growth I'm seeing is astounding and the traffic is even worse. Why can't these people stay where they are or just come here in fewer numbers. This Texan wants you all to go back! haha well not really but you know what I mean

[nativeDallasite]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

nD's old neighborhood inside LBJ is appreciating at 20-something % (consistently) East Dallas, LH and Park Cities all showed 9% appreciation in the last report. Maybe some of that N Dallas appreciation is due the the teardown phenomenon but still -- we are talking real money. It is a way for the ordinary working stiff to insure a solid retirement, instead of taking years off his/her life driving, paying astronomical vehicle and gasoline costs..

It's ALL due to the teardown phenomenon. And don't even think that the ordinary working stiff can afford to buy into that neighborhood...my parents could get over $450k if they sold today, and that's only the value of the land. If someone told them "I'll buy your house if you re-do the kitchen" they'd tell them to go pound sand because they could get the same money from a vulture developer without having to put in the effort. $450k is bigger than a jumbo mortgage and out of most peoples' reach. If you were going to make serious money in that 'hood and you're an average joe, the ship has sailed. It's too late. The people making money are people who bought in years ago and real estate investors...IF they can sell those stupid McMansions that they build. Some are still sitting on the market.

Stick a fork in north Dallas, it's done.