New hvac system - trane vs carrier (Dallas, Sanger: home, heat pump)

[DallasHouzz]

Had a 3rd company out today who said we need a 5-ton variable speed system & he is recommending Rheem as he says there have been issues with Trane. His quote is somewhere in the neighborhood of $15-16K. This is crazy.
This does not include electrical or insulation.

And he kept saying that ours is not a normal install - that it is not a retrofit which is most of their jobs - more that a modified new construction to reduct whole system in attic. Doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in them having the expertise to do the job.

The Carrier dealer who did the did load calc sort of showed it to me but would not give it to me. He said he based it on 103 degrees outside and either 74 or 76 inside.

What is the difference between 3 ton 2-stage & 4 ton single stage?

I need to make a decision soon as this impacts our ability to do other projects before move-in but I am so confused.

How do 3 companies give you 3 different sizes?

Thanks

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

When I re-did my system in Utah, the HVAC guy, whom I trusted, said IHO zoned systems didn't work well. He preferred to put in 2 units, so I did. I was very happy with the results - of course, heat was the big concern, not a/c.

[DallasHouzz]

I have no room to put in 2 units. This is single story home and can existing furnace can not go in attic. This is not an option.

[globe9]

Originally Posted by DallasHouzz

Had a 3rd company out today who said we need a 5-ton variable speed system & he is recommending Rheem as he says there have been issues with Trane. His quote is somewhere in the neighborhood of $15-16K. This is crazy.
This does not include electrical or insulation.

And he kept saying that ours is not a normal install - that it is not a retrofit which is most of their jobs - more that a modified new construction to reduct whole system in attic. Doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in them having the expertise to do the job.

The Carrier dealer who did the did load calc sort of showed it to me but would not give it to me. He said he based it on 103 degrees outside and either 74 or 76 inside.

What is the difference between 3 ton 2-stage & 4 ton single stage?

I need to make a decision soon as this impacts our ability to do other projects before move-in but I am so confused.

How do 3 companies give you 3 different sizes?

Thanks

$15-$16k seems crazy expensive IMO. I have heard good things about Air Force One. They're located in Richardson. A friend used them and was very happy with their results. He did a 3 ton single stage Rheem complete system for $6k. This did not include insulation, but you may do better having someone besides the a/c guys do that if they're quoting that high anyway.

[DallasHouzz]

This is not a simple retrofit.

$2,500-$3,500 of the pricing is to install all new ductwork plus there is the cost of moving the outside unit around to the side of the home instead of being in the back yard right outside the back door.

I am trying to answer as best I can. I am not trying to be difficult, I was just not expecting having to face this major expense right after closing. The real estate market is crazy & we were on a time limit to buy a home. Most homes have multiple offers as did ours & we had a short option period. I realize no one forced us to buy this home but I am just frustrated that 3 top rated companies are coming up with different recommendations.

The system currently in place is working but if we are not going to be comfortable & it is undersized I'd rather bite the bullet now & replace before we do other work & paint before moving in.

I would think that an inspector who told us he has inspected 17,000 homes in DFW would have given us a heads up that a 2 or 2 & 1/2 ton mismatched system would be undersized for a close to 2,300 SF home,

The ducts are located in the soffits below the attic (as was apparently done in the 60's in these homes) running in a t-shape down 2-hallways perpendicular to each other,

The quotes I have received are to install all new ductwork in the attic so we can at some point knock out the existing ductwork & soffits & raise the ceiling height in the 2 hallways to that of the rest of the home.

This would be done if we installed a 3, 4 or 5 ton replacement system including furnace, coil etc.

I just have a hard time understanding how a 3 ton system would cool a 2,300SF home.

I have attached a copy of the floor plan that the Carrier dealer created. He would not give me the load calc. We also requested an additional supply in the MBR and they will be installing a 2nd (additional) return.

Thank you.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by DallasHouzz

Had a 3rd company out today who said we need a 5-ton variable speed system & he is recommending Rheem as he says there have been issues with Trane. His quote is somewhere in the neighborhood of $15-16K. This is crazy.
This does not include electrical or insulation.

And he kept saying that ours is not a normal install - that it is not a retrofit which is most of their jobs - more that a modified new construction to reduct whole system in attic. Doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in them having the expertise to do the job.

The Carrier dealer who did the did load calc sort of showed it to me but would not give it to me. He said he based it on 103 degrees outside and either 74 or 76 inside.

What is the difference between 3 ton 2-stage & 4 ton single stage?

I need to make a decision soon as this impacts our ability to do other projects before move-in but I am so confused.

How do 3 companies give you 3 different sizes?

Thanks

Sorry but there is simply no way 36,000 BTU (3T) will cool your house 29 degrees from 103F. Are you sure this unit isn't rated 3T at it's lower setting? and maybe 3.75 or so on high? The guy is a jerk for not giving you the cooling study. I'd pre-fire the guy simply for that.

3 ton 2-stage is a 36,000 BTU worth of cooling that will run at 100% and also a some lower value....maybe 80% some also have variable speed fans too. The idea is that the AC would run most all of the time. Allowing it to de-humidify better which in turn allows the owner to set the temp. a bit higher but feel just as cool.

A 4 ton single stage is 48,000 BTU of cooling, the unit runs either at 100% or it is resting between cycles. Usually the fan is either on or off as well.

5 tons is 60,000 BTU of cooling. That's just a tad bit too much according to the old charts unless your house is not insulated well and then it would be on the high side of OK.


Remember a couple of things. You are the boss it's your money and ultimately if you buy the wrong unit the seller will not return your calls. Half of these guys are great the other half are ex-cons and scum-bags and half of the AC companies out there make used car dealers look like choir boys. The really awesome uber SEER multistage variable speed fan units are wonderful.....but the relative ROI (cost premium vs. electric bill savings) is very long term. If you see yourself in this house for 10+ years maybe go long on the very best unit you can. If you are not sure buy a nicely efficient 4 Ton +/- a few percent unit and call it a day. But talk to the guy I DM'd you about he's awesome.

[DallasHouzz]

Thanks all - I will let you know what happens!

[MckinneyOwnr]

I'd also recommend going with the 4 ton unit, since you can't do two units. My parents house single story and 3100 sq ft, they had 2 units, a 3 ton and a 2 ton. The 3 ton did the lions share of the work, the 2 ton only cooled the master bedroom, study, and guest room.

We have a Carrier, it's performed well for 5 years for us, and the house was 5 years old when we bought it.

[DallasHouzz]

Interesting the last company that came out yesterday called and said they did not want the job (the 5 ton highest bid)

This is the one that said they usually did retrofits & this would be a difficult job for them.

Perhaps I also asked too many questions.

I guess best they declined if they did not think they could do a good job but how do I know I am finding someone who is an expect at installing new ducts, etc in a 1964 home as well as the HVAC core components?

Thanks.

[WorldKlas]

is the presently installed system working? If so, you might consider waiting until winter when prices are lower and no one is going to die of heat exhaustion reconfiguring ductwork in the attic.