Renting retail space in Dallas - Opening Ice Cream Parlor (Fort Worth: homes, neighborhood)

[dinoo82]

Not sure what the OP's target market is but up in Richardson near the State Farm HQ, they are opening up a high end/modern plaza sometime in 2015/2016. Some established brands (Wholefoods and some others) are moving in that area so if that's your target market, you should check out that space. According to the plans, it looks like a bunch of apts will be surrounding that plaza.

http://www.regencycenters.com/upload...941722_pdf.pdf
Dine - CityLine

[icecream1717]

Thanks for all the input guys! I've been looking in west Dallas, especially in Bishop Arts area and have not seen any great ice cream. I feel Dallas is deprived of small local ice cream parlors, except Steel City Pops In lower greenville is a great ice cream Popsicle shop.

If any of you guys been to San Francisco and tried Bi rite or Humphry Slocombe, Salt and Straw in Portland, their ice cream is made from all natural and mostly ingredients from local farms, with very creative flavors. I'm striving for this type of quality of ice cream and hope to bring it to Dallas. I want my shop to be very natural and have unique and local flavors, so I thought Bishop Arts would be a great location that would embrace a small and non franchised shop since the area is hipster and small local feeling to it.

I haven't heard of Carnival Barker, but I will take a look at it. Do you know what style of ice cream theyre making? There's a lot of ice cream stores in Dfw, but the majority of them are franchises that I've seen so far. Not sure if there are a lot of new ones opening. Thank you for mentioning Carnival.

I haven't heard of the new construction going on in Richardson, I will look at that. Do you know what kind of area that is? Lots of younger folks or mainly suburban? Only problem is that I'm unsure of cities outside of Dallas that are suburban. I may be wrong, but afraid the people in suburban areas are accustomed to ice cream like Braums or Cold Stone Creamery and would not like to pay a premium for the all natural and locally sourced ingredients.

That's a good idea to find a restaurant struggling, I'll try that out. I'm looking to lease a space in early 2016

Thanks for the input guys!

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by alastrian2

The owner of Michoacana owns the building, I believe. Goodspace wants to maximize profit, like anyone else. Have you considered simply finding a kitchen space and making your ice cream for retail stores like Bolsa Mercado & Urban Acres? Develop a loyal following and only then look for retail space?

I also agree that this is the best strategy- either as a wholesale operation or as a food truck. Carnival Barker started out catering wedding and events from an ice cream cart for a while before they tried a retail shop. Same thing with Trailer Cakes cupcakes, another local company.

Signing a 5-year lease just seems REALLY risky, especially for someone who hasn't owned and operated a retail front before. Here's a 2013 article about Carnival Barker hilighting the risks and obstacles they faced early on:
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/city...r.php?page=all

[pepper131]

It sounds like you will be making ice cream I would like to eat. :-) You are correct, we don't have anything like Salt and Straw, or Lick, or Jeni's. We only have Carnival Barker. Honestly, you should have heard of them if you are doing your research.
Carnival Barker's Ice Cream Will Expand to Oak Cliff, Grow its Menu and Start Wholesaling | Dallas Observer

Bishop Arts is very saturated with indie, hipster places. I don't like going there any more. There is no where to park. I might pop into Bolsa Mercado every now and then because I can park there.

It really seems like lower Greenville would be your audience. Maybe the east side of Henderson. Possibly Deep Ellum.
Think about your business plan and how how much space do you REALLY need? Jeni's operates out of very small spaces. Amy's in Austin - the same....very small. Do you really need 1500 sq ft?

Another thing - get out and connect with people who are making indie super premium products. Research how they started, learn from them if they will allow it.

[TheOverdog]

Man this conversation is like Babe Ruth -no body goes there anymore it's too crowded! Seems like, rent aside, the OP has picked the right place. I'd stick to this area if I were you and not look at the suburbs. Braums on the low end and Pacuigo on the upper end has ice cream covered.

I'd also second everyone's recommendations of a partner. Ideas are a dime a dozen - the hard part is marketing and advertising in a crowded market.

[HockDad]

Three thoughts:

1) you need to read up on Baskin Robbin franchisees. They are considered in the industry as the least successful and owners barely scrape by. I know your concept is slightly different, but you are talking about a business where you will have days with under $100.00 in revenue. It can be a killer. At 4k rent, you need to average between $400-600 per day to make a decent living.

2) Do your best not to sign a PG. Most landlords will want one since you a new business, but you would be far better offering 3-6 months as a security deposit/advance rent compared to signing on personally for a 5 year lease. You need to set up a LLC

3) Knox Henderson has Wild About Harrys. It is somewhat of an institution. Nonetheless, I think he has a bankruptcy in his past. That is a tough business. My girls love it and they want me to take them there all of the time, but it is never too busy.

[icecream1717]

Turtlecreek/pepper, Ah yes, I've actually been to Carnival Baker and had their ice cream before, but I've never realized what the name was. I always pass by it going to the Truck Yard and to Steel City Pops. It's pretty good ice cream. Looks like its definitely not as simple as I thought, going straight to a retail location. I'll definitely start with an ice cream cart or something similar as you guys are suggesting. This was my first thought, but decided to deviate. Now I'm realizing that is not a wise choice.

Pepper, Yes, I don't need 1,500 sq ft, it was one of the spaces that were up for lease and was taking a look at. However, I did take the leasing seriously but good thing I did not sign a contract for it. I'm in Austin right now for vacation, so I'm planning to visit Lick Ice cream sometime later in the afternoon today and see how large their space is. I hope to serve you Ice cream someday!

Hockdad, My friend's friend owns two Baskin Robins near Highland Park, and I've heard he does pretty well. I'm not sure how other locations fair, but I was pretty surprised to hear the locations do well. Yes, I'm afraid during the winter times when business will be slow and need to find ways to cover rent and get by. What is a PG? Yes, that'd be great if I can pay 4-6 months of rent in advance instead of signing a 5 year contract. I guess it depends on the location and owner, and demand. Wild about Harry's is decent custard ice cream but their setup and decor is very poor. I'm hoping this is the reason why the location is not as busy as it could be.

Theoverdog, What is Babe Ruth? Is that a ice cream store?

[dinoo82]

Originally Posted by icecream1717

I haven't heard of the new construction going on in Richardson, I will look at that. Do you know what kind of area that is? Lots of younger folks or mainly suburban? Only problem is that I'm unsure of cities outside of Dallas that are suburban. I may be wrong, but afraid the people in suburban areas are accustomed to ice cream like Braums or Cold Stone Creamery and would not like to pay a premium for the all natural and locally sourced ingredients.

That's a good idea to find a restaurant struggling, I'll try that out. I'm looking to lease a space in early 2016

Thanks for the input guys!

Based on the look of the pdf presentation, and one block of apartments that they've built, the target market they are going for is something comparable to uptown apartments? In addition to what I've seen, the following retailers announced that they are moving in( Wholefoods, Look Cinema, Tom+Chee). These retailers usually target the middle/middle upper income areas/ individuals who don't mind paying a little more. And if you look at the demographics for that area, avg household income is +$110k so to me it looks like it would be a good spot.
//www.city-data.com/zips/75082.html

Especially with a quick google search, doesn't look to me that there are any ice cream shops w/in 1-2 miles that is comparable to bi-rite (I use to live in SF so I know what you're talking about). But of course it was just a quick search so you'll need to do your own due diligence.

[inthemstreets]

Personally, I would be really excited to have a Bi-rite-like ice cream place in East Dallas. (Or like Mitchell's, my other favorite SF ice cream place.) I've been to Carnival Barker's a few times and, while it is a nice addition to Greenville, I don't find the ice cream to be at the Bi-rite level.

[MurphyPl1]

Henry's in Plano and Sweet Firefly do very good business in the suburbs. But there is nothing near the new State Farm complex.