02-25-2015, 02:44 PM
Location: Southlake. Don't judge me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
rantanamo
There are plenty of kids in the area taking more than 3 AP classes. 20 years ago every class I had was IB and AP if it wasn't offered in IB. And that was at Garland High, not even considered attendable on this board.
Hey, I think many of us give Garland HS its props. The ISD as a whole may get some criticism, true.
02-25-2015, 04:12 PM
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To the OP, you know the *best* way to do well on tests is to really study for it. Then it does not matter how others do, or how much accommodation they get. That's really the best tip any child should get.
02-25-2015, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
4Movingeast
This thread got (unintentionally) pretty funny
Not unintentionally.
02-25-2015, 08:56 PM
Location: Colleyville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MobiusStrip
Not unintentionally.
Oh I meant on OP's part!
02-27-2015, 11:35 PM
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I think that the OP's point is this -- there are a large number of students at her child's school whose past academic performance, without any accommodations or extended time, has allowed them to perform well enough to be allowed to take the maximum number of AP classes that this school allows. They are obviously exceptionally talented students and nobody ever suspected a learning difference, but now suddenly in eleventh grade, these students have extended time and her child doesn't think it is fair.
Not sure whether the OP knows what is actually going on here, but it is likely this: The students have probably been advised to take the ACT rather than the SAT because it is easier to prep the heck out of the test and master the material that is likely to show up. But the problem with the ACT is time pressure. To get extended time on the ACT you must be receiving similar accommodations at school. A student's diagnostic testing showing a need for accommodations must be no more than a year old at the time the student registers for the ACT. (The condition that warrants accommodation can be older, but you have to re-document in the one year time frame.)
Many families learn all this upon meeting with a test prep consultant some time after the practice PSAT in the tenth grade. The typical private school college testing regime includes a first shot at the ACT/SAT in the spring of junior year with additional attempts, if needed, in the summer/fall of senior year. Thus students following this strategy will obtain the necessary diagnostic testing to allow accommodation sometime in the spring semester of tenth grade. Then, voila, the student has accommodations at school for the first time in eleventh grade even though none were ever needed before. More importantly, though, the student is now entitled to extended time on the ACT. It is an expensive, but often effective, way to game the system both at school but also on college testing.
03-02-2015, 06:48 AM
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Tamara and Veuevegirl, you're misreading the OP. She didn't say that these kids are suddenly taking APs. She said that they are suddenly getting extra time.
With that said, if I ever find myself pondering these sorts of things, I'm making major life changes.
Also, I think the effect of private schools having a "better" base of students, thus creating the illusion of more success, generalizes to the college level as well. Harvard grads probably, on average, have more success than UT grads. However, they also attract higher quality applicants. I'm not sure that the same applicant would do better if he went to Harvard rather than UT.
03-02-2015, 07:04 AM
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Here's a tip you can pass along to your daughter...
"You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks"
03-02-2015, 09:00 AM
Location: North Dallas via Philly .. and DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wittgenstein's Ghost
Tamara and Veuevegirl, you're misreading the OP. She didn't say that these kids are suddenly taking APs. She said that they are suddenly getting extra time.
With that said, if I ever find myself pondering these sorts of things, I'm making major life changes.
Also, I think the effect of private schools having a "better" base of students, thus creating the illusion of more success, generalizes to the college level as well. Harvard grads probably, on average, have more success than UT grads. However, they also attract higher quality applicants. I'm not sure that the same applicant would do better if he went to Harvard rather than UT.
My child was outraged that people all of a sudden in 11th grade were taking 3 AP courses and getting extra time in all of them FOR THE FIRST TIME in 10 years.
That statement led me to believe she was saying just what she said .. in 11th grade they were suddenly taking 3 AP courses AND getting extra time. Misunderstood, maybe, but I think she and her daughter need to be more concerned about themselves instead of what other students are doing/getting. Is the OP's daughter suffering bc the other students are getting extra time? Does she need extra time? -- Just my opinion.
03-02-2015, 10:07 AM
Location: Dallas, TX
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To put the AP stuff into perspective, here's a direct quote from Greenhill's school profile:
Quote:
"Students are limited to a maximum of three AP courses each year, typically taken
in eleventh and twelfth grades. It is rare for a student to take an AP course in
ninth or tenth grade. "
So, in a school like this, 3 APs
would be a big deal, and you
would be "suddenly" taking them in 11th grade.
--
The OP seems to be assuming that the testing accomodations are phony, rather than legitimate. (Legit accomodations take us down another path.) Given that these kids were in no need of accomodations before, that may well be a correct interpretation. If we take that to be the case, as described by
SMS_Parent , then we have a situation where some students are :
1) maxing out their AP quota (thereby providing a
public image of maximum rigor), while
2) gaming the system with extra time (thereby
privately reducing the difficulty of the class relative to classmates).
03-02-2015, 01:52 PM
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Scattershooting:
And early apologies and a rambling warning I took a back pain med a while ago.......
1. Some people place WAY too much emphasis on an Ivy League education. To my way of thinking rising college kids should identify their area of study interest as best they can and then accept the offer from the best program that accepts them. Examples: if a kid wants to be a petroleum engineer why in the world would he/she attend Harvard, Brown or Yale when the best program on earth is at Texas A&M? Why would anyone acting rationally who wants to be a civil engineer attend Harvard when UT has the #3 program? Etc.
2. Both my kids went the private school route, by the time private school kids graduate they know most classmates in surprising detail.
3. A key advantage of better private schooling over publics is the educational attainment of faculty and the private school's willingness to employ bonafide experts as faculty over people with teaching certificates. For some examples both of my kids had the same 3rd grade teacher who was a retired electrical engineer, with some help at home, by the time each kiddo was done with 3rd grade they were able to tackle simple multi-variable algebra including fractions. Further along the way each had Ph.D math and physics instructors. At Jesuit one of my son's math instructors was also a professor at SMU. I understand these things happen at publics too but at nothing like the rate at the North Dallas Privates.
Everyone goes to college.....of my son's graduating class one kid went off to play pro hockey, another to the Army's linguistics center, I'm pretty sure that kid has his degree now as well and one kid went into the family business directly. All of these kids had specific plans and everyone else went straight to college.
Lots of private school kids have early, clear and rational plans to attend professional schools, study engineering, computer science, hard science, pursue an MBA or similar etc.
I've posted the academic successes of my son's buddy group from Jesuit and a couple of kids from Cistercian before and it looks like I'm lying so I'll boil it down to this to me the least impressive of the bunch is prepping for the CPA exam.
The above is even more apparent with girls, especially between Hockaday, Ursuline and Greenhill; these schools teach girls they are the intellectual equals of boys and they should not shy away from math and the hard sciences.
One recent Hockaday graduating class has four currently in medical school, another starting medical school next year and one young lady who is pursuing a Ph.D in bio-chemistry her plan is attend medical school later. The parents of one of these kids are our neighbors. These kids are the same age as our son who is also in medical school as well so this kind of thing is very topical around here.
5% (6/120) of that Hockaday class, assuming about 120 Hockadaisy grads that year, will become docs.
Among the entire population .03% (318,000,000/970,000, that number includes inactive and retired docs BTW) of people become docs.
So that Hockaday class will have produced ~17 times more docs than simple proportionality would imply. That's an extremely long way of saying that it isn't just that these kids are smart or connected. They show up capable and motivated, with parents who really, Really, REALLY care and they are educated up, prodded and pushed to succeed.
4. So far as extra time on tests:
For most people who don't really need it getting extra time on high stress tests is probably a mistake. Fiddling around over material one does not know well won't help much if at all.
One of my son's friends has an MD diagnosed and significant learning disability. Long story short this kid will be an MD himself in a few years. He took the MCAT with regular time constraints. He later found out he could petition for extra time, he did, he took the test again with the extra time and did quite a lot worse. I understand that's anecdotal and fully unscientific but it's fairly convincing to me because I know the kid well.
So far as coaching up ACT test scores......there is definitely something to it. In my opinion a middling kid who might make a 19/20 or so can fairly easily raise that score to a 22/23/24 maybe. But a kid higher up the food chain is not going to easily bump a 30 to say a 32.
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)