What does your electric bill in August for 3000 SF? (trees, around)

[KBilly]

You have the saem plan as us, then. All of Dallas city and Plano is Oncor, plus a bunch of others.

It's 2.5 yrs old, ICF construction, 1.5 storeys, spray foamed attics, wood casement LowE windows (argon gas filled). Our gas bill for January was $128.

[lh_newbie]

Originally Posted by KBilly

You have the saem plan as us, then. All of Dallas city and Plano is Oncor, plus a bunch of others.

It's 2.5 yrs old, ICF construction, 1.5 storeys, spray foamed attics, wood casement LowE windows (argon gas filled). Our gas bill for January was $128.

So when you inviting me over to check out the ICF construction?

All things considered - we have stick construction with regular 1976 "batts" insulation in the walls and single pane aluminum windows... I'm quite happy we compare as well as we do to your ICF home.

(seriously, i'd love a tour)

Brian

[harishv]

So Brian, KBilly;

you guys both signed up with Gexa? Those bills really have me foaming at my mouth...will find out this summer....the trouble is the number of appliances as well - my lovely wife has a wine cooler, an extra fridge and an extra freezer in the garage.....as it is, the fridge and freezers are not the most efficient and also are typically right below the ac and the dryer when it comes to energy usage and put them in the garage where they have to work extra hard..............

[Philip T]

Hey, while we are chatting electricity prices, can I hit you guys up for some data points in a lazy sort of market survey? That is me being lazy and you being typical electriicity market folks who are concerned about price.

I have playing with some solar thermal electric generation. Works from the sun like Photovoltaic, but uses the heat to generate power rather than light over semiconductors. Have been pondering how to best get electricity to the folks who want to buy it. It looks like the overall cost of the power is about half of what the retail market price of power that comes down power line.

So here is my market pondering question (any of you marketing types please re-phrase, if needed -- I am a communication challenged enginerd type )

If folks wanted (around) half-price electricity would they rather:

A. Solar generating equipment they bought, owned and installed on their own place, or
B. Solar generating equipment that was near them and came to their site by local "backyard grid," or
C. Solar generating equipment that was on their site, but owned by someone else and they just paid for power monthly as they used it -- again, should be about 1/2 of the retail price, or
D. None of the above, because _____________________ .

Where I am in South Dallas, I can do any of those options -- but we are zoned "Industrial Research." So we can make power for ourselves, or "backyard grid" it to the neighbors, or make it mobile and drop it off at another location.

But I do not tend to have typical views on a lot of things, so I know that I am not a very good data point when it comes to what other folks would like or do.

How do HOAs (Home Owner Associations) if any of you are in one, deal with Renewable Energy devices in your neighborhoods?

Thanks.

[kaykay]

OUr house is 3100 sq ft. and we have had bills as high as 400 or maybe a little higher. House was built in 1991. We keep A/C about 72-74. No pool.

[KantLockeMeIn]

Originally Posted by Philip T

Hey, while we are chatting electricity prices, can I hit you guys up for some data points in a lazy sort of market survey? That is me being lazy and you being typical electriicity market folks who are concerned about price.

I have playing with some solar thermal electric generation. Works from the sun like Photovoltaic, but uses the heat to generate power rather than light over semiconductors. Have been pondering how to best get electricity to the folks who want to buy it. It looks like the overall cost of the power is about half of what the retail market price of power that comes down power line.

So here is my market pondering question (any of you marketing types please re-phrase, if needed -- I am a communication challenged enginerd type )

If folks wanted (around) half-price electricity would they rather:

A. Solar generating equipment they bought, owned and installed on their own place, or
B. Solar generating equipment that was near them and came to their site by local "backyard grid," or
C. Solar generating equipment that was on their site, but owned by someone else and they just paid for power monthly as they used it -- again, should be about 1/2 of the retail price, or
D. None of the above, because _____________________ .

Where I am in South Dallas, I can do any of those options -- but we are zoned "Industrial Research." So we can make power for ourselves, or "backyard grid" it to the neighbors, or make it mobile and drop it off at another location.

But I do not tend to have typical views on a lot of things, so I know that I am not a very good data point when it comes to what other folks would like or do.

How do HOAs (Home Owner Associations) if any of you are in one, deal with Renewable Energy devices in your neighborhoods?

Thanks.

I have to assume that solar isn't as viable here given the hailstones that we get from time to time. Are there panels that are resistant?

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by twojciac

I have to assume that solar isn't as viable here given the hailstones that we get from time to time. Are there panels that are resistant?

You are asking about PV solar panels? Yes, they tend to be fairly robust. Hail is not really issue in non-selection of PV. The real downside is recovery of cost. Most math analysis shows that electricity costs would have to be around 20 cents k/Wh for a fast enough to recovery to interest most folks for PV.

That is why I am talking a whole different breed of cat. Solar thermal electric costs are around 5 cents per k/Wh. About half or less of what most folks are presently paying for utility sourced electricity. Makes it an easy win on the money, right from the start. And again, hail is not really an issue.

[KantLockeMeIn]

Originally Posted by Philip T

You are asking about PV solar panels? Yes, they tend to be fairly robust. Hail is not really issue in non-selection of PV. The real downside is recovery of cost. Most math analysis shows that electricity costs would have to be around 20 cents k/Wh for a fast enough to recovery to interest most folks for PV.

That is why I am talking a whole different breed of cat. Solar thermal electric costs are around 5 cents per k/Wh. About half or less of what most folks are presently paying for utility sourced electricity. Makes it an easy win on the money, right from the start. And again, hail is not really an issue.

Interesting... is this new technology? You would assume if it were cheaper than current rates of 10-12 cents per kW that it would be more visible.

As far as the options go, the devil is in the details. Option C sounds the most attractive since it requires no outlay of cash and would offer immediate savings to a consumer. However, the contract terms are where it would get interesting. I would assume the company would want a long term contract to make it worthwhile installing the hardware, and a consumer wouldn't want an increase in rates with no way out of the contract.

There's a company that offers an interesting solution where you rent panels called renu citizenre. It doesn't look like it offers much cost savings, mostly just knowing that you're using green energy.

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by twojciac

Interesting... is this new technology? You would assume if it were cheaper than current rates of 10-12 cents per kW that it would be more visible.

Pretty old tech, actually. For a mini-background search "solar thermal electric"

solar thermal electric - Google Search

It is up and coming in a lot of the world, including California, Nevada, Spain, Israel -- as far as assumptions -- you have to keep in mind that in Texas, you are not generally dealing too deep into the gifted and talented pool when it comes to a new thought.

As far as the options go, the devil is in the details. Option C sounds the most attractive since it requires no outlay of cash and would offer immediate savings to a consumer. However, the contract terms are where it would get interesting. I would assume the company would want a long term contract to make it worthwhile installing the hardware, and a consumer wouldn't want an increase in rates with no way out of the contract.

I was thinking that made it easy for normal folks, as well. I am looking at setting it up and was just considering what business models would make it easy for real world folks to deal with. No real risk in prices going up as costs are set with building the equipment and dropping it off at the customer site.

There's a company that offers an interesting solution where you rent panels called renu citizenre. It doesn't look like it offers much cost savings, mostly just knowing that you're using green energy.

I do recall reading about them, I think California as I recall. I think the motive was a tax credit that the company got as owner of the equipment when the equipment was installed. The "rent" i.e., paying retail rate for the power produced, was the "incentive" for the property owner providinig an install location and grid tie.

[lh_newbie]

Renu Citizenre - they haven't deployed a single solar array to my knowledge. Still a concept. They're trying to get costs down if my information is correct. PV arrays are, as pointed above, not economically feasible. Panel + inverter + installation costs + time/value of money, even if they last 30 years - is in the 20 cents/KwH range. I'm very hopeful that thin film PV production will ramp up over the next 12-18 months. The "promise" of the thin film industry is $1 per panel watt. Today's traditional panels cost about $4.50 per panel watt. (if you need ~ 800KwH per month average, you would need a 5000 watt solar array in our area - so we're talking panel pricing of $5000 compared to $22,500 - so it's a huge savings). Today, if you go to We know solar panels! Industrial, residential, RV/Marine, solar panel systems, you can see that a 5,000 array (excluding installation charges) is ~ $28K. Imagine if that cost came down to $11K.... I'd be alll over it.

Brian