Bye Bye Valley View Mall - Demolition Time (construction, bus)

[TheOverdog]

With fairview main challenge was and is a capturing dollars from shoppers when you have an outlet mall across the freeway

That's because the design is so bad, you wouldn't know where the small stores are unless you are passing them. Either put them in a mall so you walk past them or design a legitimate main street where you can drive past them, but that mess up there is like a random mishmash of buildings and parking lots.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by HP48G

yes, it is fully leased out however so was Valley View in its peak and then the growth and money continued their way north up the tollway...

Very close to Stonebriar you have two major mixed use developments that will put a lot of pressure on it: Legacy West and Grandscape. These two combined will add millions of sq ft of flashy brand new leasable space for retail and dining...all competing for the same middle class customer from Frisco/Plano...
thats why the new owners of Willow Bend are in a hurry to redesign the mall to keep it relevant.

But Stonebriar didn't go up next to a Galleria so hard to make an apples to apples comparison. Willow Bend has seemed dead from day one, they needed to fix it. Stonebriar has been a roaring success from day one and hasn't waned. More is going up around it all the time. Gets busier each year. More jobs heading this way. Frisco, McKinney, Prosper.... all are half built out as far as residential... still more and more people coming to the area.

So, your odd penchant for predicting doom and gloom and demise will probably be delayed, at least in the case of Stonebriar, for many years to come.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Maybe! Richardson Square Mall's redevelopment is terrific, though. We regularly go to the Lowe's and Super Target there and the fast food joints they put up on pads facing Plano Road are always busy. So's the Bank of America. Anna's Linens did fold up shop, but that place was nasty anyway.




Didn't know that about Town East...interesting!

I agree re Stonebriar and Willow Bend. For a while there it looked like Willow Bend was going to be a fancy ghost town. I guess they don't compete with each other much.

I haven't been up to the shops at Fairview for a while. I stay south of Stacy Road and hit Cabela's and Super Target from time to time. I'm surprised to hear it's not doing well, what with all the traffic at that intersection. It's always mobbed whenever I'm up there.

Originally Posted by smuboy86

With fairview main challenge was and is a capturing dollars from shoppers when you have an outlet mall across the freeway. The big boxes do well there, but the mall stores seem to struggle.

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

That's because the design is so bad, you wouldn't know where the small stores are unless you are passing them. Either put them in a mall so you walk past them or design a legitimate main street where you can drive past them, but that mess up there is like a random mishmash of buildings and parking lots.

I really wish the powers that be in Allen and Fairview had forced the developers of Watters Creek and Fairview to combine their proposals. Both are great spaces but sort of compete for the same type of shopper. If it had all been combined in one.... if Watters Creek had the anchors.... or better yet, if the Watters Creek had been where Fairview is, I think a better supported shopping district would have been made. But the two so close together has me worried. Now the big box side of things on the south side of Stacy is another story... always hopping.

McKinney had a big development at 121 and Central across from the hospital go on ice during the recession. I remember a dine movie house, a Books a Million and other stores had committed. The Sheraton that finally completed last year sat half built for several years. Now I see signs for McKinney Gateway on that spot, don't know what establishments have made commitments, but it seems more competition is heading up the street.

[HP48G]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

So, your odd penchant for predicting doom and gloom and demise will probably be delayed, at least in the case of Stonebriar, for many years to come.

So you think dropping 3+ Million sq ft of new flashy retail space very close to an older enclosed mall that previously had no adjacent competition is not going to affect lease rates and customer traffic ?(and there's more retail space planned in that same corridor!).

[Soonhun]

Originally Posted by HP48G

So you think dropping 3+ Million sq ft of new flashy retail space very close to an older enclosed mall that previously had no adjacent competition is not going to affect lease rates and customer traffic ?(and there's more retail space planned in that same corridor!).

The poster only seemed to disagree with the idea that the time has come to predict the closing of Stonebriar. Never said there would be no affect.

[Exult.Q36]

Dallas is progressing nicely. Midtown will virtually be another uptown. Dallas is looking more and more urban by the day.

[Beaching]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I really wish the powers that be in Allen and Fairview had forced the developers of Watters Creek and Fairview to combine their proposals. Both are great spaces but sort of compete for the same type of shopper. If it had all been combined in one.... if Watters Creek had the anchors.... or better yet, if the Watters Creek had been where Fairview is, I think a better supported shopping district would have been made. But the two so close together has me worried. Now the big box side of things on the south side of Stacy is another story... always hopping.

McKinney had a big development at 121 and Central across from the hospital go on ice during the recession. I remember a dine movie house, a Books a Million and other stores had committed. The Sheraton that finally completed last year sat half built for several years. Now I see signs for McKinney Gateway on that spot, don't know what establishments have made commitments, but it seems more competition is heading up the street.

I'm not a fan of Waters Creek either. It's even more contorted than Fairview. At least Fairview is one straight street, even though it has wide gaps between blocks and street too wide to criss cross to stores. The traffic in Waters Creek turns me off as well.

I don't do outlet malls. Honestly, the prices are not always better. No returns allowed at the outlets. Sometimes the items are last years, overruns or a lower line that the manufacturer is making for their outlets. I'd rather buy at the main stores and have the option to return if need be. Clearance sales at the main stores can also be better buys than the outlets.


Okay, who remembers the outlet mall in McKinney? It was located on the SW corner of 75 & 121. It was one of the original "outlet" malls from the old days that had 2-3 of the more main lines one would recognize brands that were sold in department stores and then the independent little stores of basic junk.

Hillsborough outlet mall has looked like a ghost town for years.

[TheOverdog]

The traffic in Waters Creek turns me off as well.

Watters Creek was designed to be internally walkable and it is. Driving between the stores is supposed to be difficult. You can disagree with the concept of course.

Sometimes the items are last years, overruns or a lower line that the manufacturer is making for their outlets

You mean all the time. There is I think 1 major manufacturer who moves product between their regular stores and their outlet malls. The rest produce products specifically for their outlet mall locations.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by Parhe

The poster only seemed to disagree with the idea that the time has come to predict the closing of Stonebriar. Never said there would be no affect.

Thank you, as the poster himself, you nailed it.

When Stonebriar opened about ten years ago, there was NOTHING much around it. The area has boomed. It can hold much more retail than just the mall. The increase in retail around it is coinciding with a booming population base all around it as well. It will handle the new competition just fine, in fact a regional shopping area will draw people from further afield and even help the mall.


Like any other retail establishment, be it old school city center, strip mall, suburban mall.... it will fade one day if the owners don't keep it fresh and inviting. But to predict its demise just because it is a mall is foolish. Is North Park going away anytime soon? No, it is doing better than ever.

[brainofjjj]

Anyone have an update to this? I drive by almost every day and don't see much of a change. There's a carnival there now and a BBQ event this weekend. Beck seems to be making the rounds and talking to people but little more.

Project has been rumored for so long I just expect the talk to continue with no action.