Why didn't Dallas build Max Goldblatt's monorail plan, and all underground? (Fort Worth: buy, theater)

[mm4]

And with subway entrance stairs to attract businesses next to them?

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by mm4

And with subway entrance stairs to attract businesses next to them?

Significant engineering hurdles finished off by impossible high costs.

[Philip T]

Dallas was very much an "old fart" business model.

Just jumping towards anything mass transit was a serious break for them.

Otherwise -- something that goes in fast, is flexible, like a monorail and did not all try to force a connection through downtown, would have been the sensible choice.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by Philip T

Dallas was very much an "old fart" business model.

Just jumping towards anything mass transit was a serious break for them.

Otherwise -- something that goes in fast, is flexible, like a monorail and did not all try to force a connection through downtown, would have been the sensible choice.

Monorail was the antithesis of flexible. It relies on a very limited choice of venders (Disney offered its services) and precedent engineering, the course is unwieldy and clumsy, including track switching. The trains are slow. They're narrow, with less capacity than proven systems. In 1976 I boarded a monorail in Orlando where the floor was shaking with the rattle of the power plant.

It's theater. They're ancient follies, proofs of exotic concept. Entertainment attractions.

Originally Posted by Philip T

...and did not all try to force a connection through downtown, would have been the sensible choice.

You have to force a connection through downtown; that's the AXIS of the place.

Originally Posted by Philip T

Dallas was very much an "old fart" business model.

Just jumping towards anything mass transit was a serious break for them.

The financing model for DART was approved in 1983. Councilman Goldblatt actually set the effort to build out the starter system back by several years by insisting on monorail studies.

[Prospered]

It's worth reconsidering to see if some modifications can make it more practical.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by Prospered

It's worth reconsidering to see if some modifications can make it more practical.

I'll consider it, but to reengineer it, test it, buy unproven, and then support an exotic physical plant that nobody else in the world uses doesn't sound anything but cost prohibitive. Forget at-grade crossings (unless some elaborate combination of hydraulics and steel plate were put together).

Present day bogie and Stephenson gauge systems are commodity, and time-tested tech. Including their maintenance support.

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by mm4

Monorail was the antithesis of flexible. It relies on a very limited choice of venders (Disney offered its services) and precedent engineering, the course is unwieldy and clumsy, including track switching. The trains are slow. They're narrow, with less capacity than proven systems. In 1976 I boarded a monorail in Orlando where the floor was shaking with the rattle of the power plant.

1976.

As a sincere reference data point. Okay.

40 years ago.

I will just let the "old fart" part stand on its own merits.

It's theater. They're ancient follies, proofs of exotic concept. Entertainment attractions.

Also known as Art and Architecture. Big Glass Moons. Pointy Tip Buildings.

Dallas has some of that . . . and an old skool dull-wit train . . . . which does not route where folks really go.

How dumb is that?

Dallas does not much real history. All it has is exotic, future, and mind-candy. Need to play that card.

You have to force a connection through downtown; that's the AXIS of the place.

No.

DART and politics had to force it through D.T. Dallas, at the fear of Loss of Status and Money.

Fear is/was IF the train went somewhere else -- them they gots, may have less.

Real (weighted) Axis of the Dallas side of things is (and was) closer to the High-Five, and the real Axis of the Dallas Fort Worth Area is DFW.

Downtown woulda/shoulda/coulda just been a loop.

The financing model for DART was approved in 1983. Councilman Goldblatt actually set the effort to build out the starter system back by several years by insisting on monorail studies.

Heavens forbid anyone would have a new thought.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by Philip T

Also known as Art and Architecture. Big Glass Moons. Pointy Tip Buildings.

Dallas has some of that . . . and an old skool dull-wit train . . . . which does not route where folks really go.

How dumb is that?

Dallas does not much real history. All it has is exotic, future, and mind-candy. Need to play that card.

It's not a restaurant on a turntable on a theme tower. That's reliable tech.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Philip T

1976.

As a sincere reference data point. Okay.

40 years ago.

I will just let the "old fart" part stand on its own merits.




Also known as Art and Architecture. Big Glass Moons. Pointy Tip Buildings.

Dallas has some of that . . . and an old skool dull-wit train . . . . which does not route where folks really go.

How dumb is that?

Dallas does not much real history. All it has is exotic, future, and mind-candy. Need to play that card.



No.

DART and politics had to force it through D.T. Dallas, at the fear of Loss of Status and Money.

Fear is/was IF the train went somewhere else -- them they gots, may have less.

Real (weighted) Axis of the Dallas side of things is (and was) closer to the High-Five, and the real Axis of the Dallas Fort Worth Area is DFW.

Downtown woulda/shoulda/coulda just been a loop.



Heavens forbid anyone would have a new thought.

When you post I can't tell if you are trying to be funny or if you believe what you are claiming?

1. '80s Dallas side COM around where The High Five is today? Come on take a look at middle '80s city populations and business locations.

2. The notion that DART would have omitted DTD is whimsical at best. Almost certainly federal participation would have been curtailed or halted if DTD had been left out. At the time virtually every big bank, law firm, advertising firm, O&G concern etc. had it's key local headquarters downtown or very close.

[f4shionablecha0s]

Originally Posted by Philip T

DART and politics had to force it through D.T. Dallas, at the fear of Loss of Status and Money.

Fear is/was IF the train went somewhere else -- them they gots, may have less.

Real (weighted) Axis of the Dallas side of things is (and was) closer to the High-Five, and the real Axis of the Dallas Fort Worth Area is DFW.

They put the train in the most dense part of down, where it can do the most good.

It isn't rocket science. You DART conspiracy theorists want the train to dump you off at some highway overpass where the closest destination is a mile or so away. You don't build the train where you can't get anywhere afterwards.