Population Center of DFW (Houston, Dallas: apartments, hotel, neighborhoods)

[Colt .45]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

That was close to my guess, just north of 635 from Las Colinas. Definitely east of DFW airport and probably slightly north of 635 by now.

I think it also depends on if Denton is considered part of DFW now. I never would have considered it part while growing up but when you drive across 380 now it's almost getting hard to tell where the CoCo suburbs end and Denton begins.

lol, Denton has solidly been apart of DFW since at least the 90's, cmon now! 380 may have been a whole lot of nothin up until the last decade, but 35 from Denton to Dallas has been completely developed ever since Corinth/Lake Dallas/Hickory Creek blossomed.....and dont forget, Denton is the apex of the "Golden Triangle".....

[Colt .45]

and also, most people I know, consider Weatherford the end of the Metroplex on the Western side, Terrell on the East, and Waxahachie on the South....and Denton has always been the end on the Northern side.....

[DTXman34]

Originally Posted by Colt .45

lol, Denton has solidly been apart of DFW since at least the 90's, cmon now! 380 may have been a whole lot of nothin up until the last decade, but 35 from Denton to Dallas has been completely developed ever since Corinth/Lake Dallas/Hickory Creek blossomed.....and dont forget, Denton is the apex of the "Golden Triangle".....

Ahh I-35... Another culprit in DFW's endless suburban sprawl

I'm sensing a pattern here.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by RJ312

It is sad when country land gets torn up. Irresponsible growth. Dallas needed something like an urban growth boundary decades ago. Grow upward, not outward.

Originally Posted by DTXman34

I agree that it's sad when country land is torn up when there's so much room here to "build up." Look at all of those empty surface parking lots in Downtown Dallas! Ugh! They desperately need to be built on. I don't believe we need an urban growth boundary per se, just better urban planning. Here are some of the reasons why there's so much suburban sprawl:

Zoning
Too much compartmentalization in terms of zoning and not enough mixed use, although this is improving greatly in the city of Dallas. (E.g. Housing must be in this zone, commercial use in another zone). This causes us to build out and not up. I believe Plano officials were looking towards smart growth in their comprehensive plan, but it caused an uproar from the locals. Typical selfish Americans -- wanting to have their cake (quiet suburban living) and eat it too (urban amenities and employment centers).

Land Use Regulations
Mandatory set back requirements from the street and minimum parking requirements takes up A LOT of land. It also makes it very car centric and unsafe for pedestrians. There's even a perfect example right here in Uptown. Which one takes up more space -- the Sun Fresh Supermarket near West Village or the new Whole Foods apartment complex further south on McKinney? Also, which one generates more revenue to the city?

Transportation Planning
I suspect the expansion of highways has a lot to do with the suburban sprawl here. Would Frisco have boomed if we didn't build the Dallas North Tollway? Would we have witnessed all the growth around 635 if that was not built? In addition to that, we have 6-8 lane wide business routes ranging from 40-55 MPH all over DFW and feeder access roads alongside our highways, especially in Dallas. This spreads everything apart!

So you guys would rather cram 7 million people into the city limits of Dallas and Fort Worth in apartment blocks and leave Plano and Frisco as prairie? The idea of build it and they will come is too simplistic. People are coming and that many people take up space.


Considering the metro area has twice the population of Connecticut in a similar land area, I think the area is pretty dense. The argument for farm land.... well drive any direction from this metro area and you are going to see more farmland than you could shake at with the proverbial stick.


How about policies that don't necessarily hamper the big 4 (add Houston, Austin and San Antonio), but would keep them from seeing the lion's share of growth and spreading it around the rest of the state? Some of the smaller cities are stagnant and there are a vast number of rural towns that are drying up. It would be nice to see some of those areas get a share of the runaway growth of this state. I'm sure those areas would give up a bit of their farm land for the boom we are seeing here in DFW.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by Colt .45

and also, most people I know, consider Weatherford the end of the Metroplex on the Western side, Terrell on the East, and Waxahachie on the South....and Denton has always been the end on the Northern side.....

Celina is projected to pass 100k in the next decade.

[DTXman34]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

So you guys would rather cram 7 million people into the city limits of Dallas and Fort Worth in apartment blocks and leave Plano and Frisco as prairie? The idea of build it and they will come is too simplistic. People are coming and that many people take up space.
.

First off, I'm against creating an arbitrary urban growth boundary. Let the market decide. It's also not about cramming 7 million people into city limits or into apartments. It's about better urban planning, efficient land use, and efficient transportation system across the board no matter if that's in Dallas or Plano. It doesn't matter if you choose to live in a single family home or big mixed use apartment. This isn't a black and white scenario. It's about efficiently moving around people and goods. And yes, subsiding a transportation system for single occupancy vehicles is very costly. There's no reason people should be driving 40 miles to work! There's no reason why you should have to hop in your car to make short trips just to get a jug of milk or loaf of bread. I'm not anti-car, I'm anti-waste. Way way way too much $$$ is being spent on building more and more highways, yet we can't even keep up with the maintanence costs of existing roadways. Too much $$ is being spent on adding additional sewer lines, while we can't keep up with the maintanence costs of existing ones. Our water resources and air quality are another major concern.

Plano city officials are looking at the above issues. They realize they can't have all of this growth and density, yet have it all solely designed around cars and single family housing. They are investigating some options to deal with this growth, yet are facing opposition from the uninformed and the selfish.

Plano Plan Encourages Urban Development, But Some Residents Aren't Happy | KERA News

And don't even bring up DART. Yes, light rail can be built very inefficiently as well. That's exactly how it is here. It's a commuter train that has made it easier for people to live 30+ miles from Downtown Dallas, when it really should be used for moving around people who live in high density areas.

[Soonhun]

Originally Posted by DTXman34

First off, I'm against creating an arbitrary urban growth boundary. Let the market decide. It's also not about cramming 7 million people into city limits or into apartments. It's about better urban planning, efficient land use, and efficient transportation system across the board no matter if that's in Dallas or Plano. It doesn't matter if you choose to live in a single family home or big mixed use apartment. This isn't a black and white scenario. It's about efficiently moving around people and goods. And yes, subsiding a transportation system for single occupancy vehicles is very costly. There's no reason people should be driving 40 miles to work! There's no reason why you should have to hop in your car to make short trips just to get a jug of milk or loaf of bread. I'm not anti-car, I'm anti-waste. Way way way too much $$$ is being spent on building more and more highways, yet we can't even keep up with the maintanence costs of existing roadways. Too much $$ is being spent on adding additional sewer lines, while we can't keep up with the maintanence costs of existing ones. Our water resources and air quality are another major concern.

Plano city officials are looking at the above issues. They realize they can't have all of this growth and density, yet have it all solely designed around cars and single family housing. They are investigating some options to deal with this growth, yet are facing opposition from the uninformed and the selfish.

Plano Plan Encourages Urban Development, But Some Residents Aren't Happy | KERA News

And don't even bring up DART. Yes, light rail can be built very inefficiently as well. That's exactly how it is here. It's a commuter train that has made it easier for people to live 30+ miles from Downtown Dallas, when it really should be used for moving around people who live in high density areas.

But that is just your opinion. Many people like DART being set up as a commuter rail. The vast majority in the DART member cities don't care either way.

[Rakin]

It used to be on the north end of DFW airport. I'd bet it has shifted a little more into Coppell by now.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

I think it also depends on if Denton is considered part of DFW now.

Yes. It's always been a part of D/FW.

[pharpe]

Originally Posted by Colt .45

and also, most people I know, consider Weatherford the end of the Metroplex on the Western side, Terrell on the East, and Waxahachie on the South....and Denton has always been the end on the Northern side.....

My boundries are a little tighter. 635 to the north and east, 35 to the west, and 30 to the south. Anything outside of that is a road trip.