Is DFW becoming less affordable? (Arlington: crawl space, cabinet, disposal)

[Wittgenstein's Ghost]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

My armchair opinion is they started taking women's input into design in certain areas of the home, and they got larger. The '60s man who was a member of the elks lodge in the evening or whatever and worked 9-5 and didn't spend much time on laundry (who cares if it's in the garage or outside?) or cooking so he didn't care if those rooms sucked and didn't really notice that the kids wanted to kill themselves and mom when stacked 2-3 to a bedroom. As soon as some marketer took mom's input those rooms got a lot bigger and better.

That might have negative impacts on social issues, but by 1970, that ship had fully sailed and it was too late to turn back to more compact neighborhoods and more upright houses.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I do agree that women's input probably contributed to certain design aspects of the house, such as open kitchens. I'm not sure size is one of those aspects, though.

I think smaller houses contributed to families being closer. Today, there are a lot of ways in which family members can isolate themselves. That was harder to do in a smaller house. Not only have houses gotten 1,000 square feet larger on average, but living space per person has doubled in that same time period due to households getting smaller. "Better" is probably in the eye of the beholder here.

[Aceraceae]

Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost

This is a big part of the equation, too. People in the last several decades have decided they want huge houses. The average house today is 1,000 square feet larger than the average house in 1973. My armchair opinion is that this has had some poor social ramifications, but more relevantly to this thread, the increase in size means some costs have to be cut in order to keep prices reasonable. One of these is an utter lack of any variety in new neighborhoods. "Variety" now means picking stone or brick and picking a floorplan. Maybe getting an extra 10 sq. ft. on your covered entry way.

My family very much resembles my youth except we live in a bigger house. I'd imagine your square footage versus societal degradation is nothing more than crap.

[Wittgenstein's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Aceraceae

My family very much resembles my youth except we live in a bigger house. I'd imagine your square footage versus societal degradation is nothing more than crap.

I think you took my post a bit too personally. Me pointing out my opinion about a social trend doesn't imply that there are no good families in large houses or even that most families in large house aren't close. That's like responding to someone saying the average American has gotten taller with "no they haven't -- I'm only 5'!"

My opinion is based on absolutely zero evidence other than my entirely non-scientific observations and speculation. FWIW, I'm not blaming myriad social ills on large houses. I just think families tend to be less close when they have more space.

[Aceraceae]

My post was only based on my assumption that yours was based on nothing, which you corroborated.

[Wittgenstein's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Aceraceae

My post was only based on my assumption that yours was based on nothing, which you corroborated.

Well yes, that's what an 'armchair opinion' is.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost

Well yes, that's what an 'armchair opinion' is.

And although houses have gotten larger, it seems like you see fewer "armchairs" these days. In fact, chairs overall may have gotten a little smaller.

[hbdwihdh378y9]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

My armchair opinion is they started taking women's input into design in certain areas of the home, and they got larger. The '60s man who was a member of the elks lodge in the evening or whatever and worked 9-5 and didn't spend much time on laundry (who cares if it's in the garage or outside?) or cooking so he didn't care if those rooms sucked and didn't really notice that the kids wanted to kill themselves and mom when stacked 2-3 to a bedroom. As soon as some marketer took mom's input those rooms got a lot bigger and better.

That's ridiculous.

[numbersguy100]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

My point is that there are fewer skilled carpenters than there used to be to meet housing demands. And those skills aren't getting passed on. Materials are also of a lesser quality than they used to be. I disagree that skilled carpenters aren't in demand...quite the opposite.

They are in demand - but not at a market clearing price. People don't care about quality anymore, or at least they are not willing to pay for it. You apparently aren't since you think skilled craftsmen are too expensive. I have no problem finding skilled labor to work on my home, but I am willing to pay what they ask.

[EDS_]

To offer some context.
1. Lots of homes around here, even new ones, even some that are not particularly expensive, have 100% sight built customs cabinets.

2. It all depends upon who the cabinet maker is an how much time he's got..........often times shop built cabinets are better. No man can cut as straight and as consistently as a CNC machine - although frankly in simple cabinetry sometimes that doesn't matter much.

3. We live in an area right on the edge of Preston Hollow that's seen a lot of tear-downs. In virtually every case the new home sports better materials and techniques than the homes replaced from say the late 1930s - 1975 (PVC instead of iron sewer lines, 100X safer electrical, Parallam type beams instead of mated 2bys, house wraps that actually work, much improved foundations, SIP board instead of stick, stick wrapped in ZIP + tape sheathing instead of stick covered in cheap foam and on and on).

4. I'm not a fan of old homes that haven't been rehabbed. However, many have been rehabbed very well.

Virtually always when some new type of construction element fails it was the wrong solution in the first place.

We live in an older home and we really like it. However, if it hadn't been rehabbed we would have passed.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by numbersguy100

They are in demand - but not at a market clearing price. People don't care about quality anymore, or at least they are not willing to pay for it. You apparently aren't since you think skilled craftsmen are too expensive. I have no problem finding skilled labor to work on my home, but I am willing to pay what they ask.

Skilled craftsmen do not crawl out from under a cabbage. It takes years of training. In some parts of the US guilds are still active. We had very good carpenters, tile layers and stone masons handle larger jobs at our Texas home. They were not cheap. They did awesome jobs. We accommodated special needs from lunch with their families on the patio to insane hours. Every single one I recommended and will gladly do so again. I am an extremely picky customer.

The gentleman who handled molding and cabinetry in our Oklahoma house agreed to additional pullouts and a (give or take) 15x10 Knotty Alder bookshelf in the office. I expected a build in frame and some boards. Hand shake agreement. Price had me a bit but there were more important things to deal with. FOUR months later a phone call - he will be here Saturday. It took four guys who obviously have worked together four hours to put The Beast in. It is over the top and could be out of an old library. His side kicks told me he does very little small projects but puts his all into the ones he accepts. He sure did!!! His comment - he saw some of the books stacked all over and wanted to showcase them. Well, he also put 12 inch stained/lacquered crown molding in a 3 1/2 car garage:>)

Would I recommend him? To folks who can work with him on his schedule and price - YES!