Is DFW becoming less affordable? (Houston, Dallas: house, neighborhoods, public schools)

[fwsavemoney]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

One has to be pretty small-minded to believe that European culture is the only "classy" culture in the world. Last time I checked, the "classy" immigrants from Ireland, Italy, and other European countries were VERY unwelcome in many parts of the US 100 years ago.

Dallas is a city for the 21st century; our peak years still lie ahead of us. 21st century immigrants hail from Mexico and Central America, China, India, Vietnam, etc. I'm sure they are delighted to hear that you find their culture and food be uncouth. Speaking of cities with great culture, have you been to Mexico City, Shanghai, or Mumbai? I love Boston, Philly, and Chicago, but I'm open minded enough to realize that "great culture" had more than one meaning. NYC is probably the only US city that keeps evolving and stays cutting edge across multiple centuries.

Culture changes over time. What was once considered obscene is now mainstream. What was once the hot new thing or place is now passé. Even NYC's famed Four Seasons restaurant shuttered this week after a 60-year run. Great Italian food isn't the hallmark of a great, modern city anymore. The world changes. We can choose to adapt and evolve or be stuck in the past, wishing for it to return.

Spot on...couldn't rep you more. Culture was just a way for the original poster to insinuate that he or she prefers Caucasians immigrating here vs Hispanics and Asians.

[fwsavemoney]

Originally Posted by lepoisson

Right, but on a day-to-day basis, most people living in Boston, San Francisco, and Chicago don't even need to leave the city.

If you want a city-like experience in DFW and decide to live in downtown Dallas or Fort Worth, you pretty much have to have a car, and to do anything but go out to eat, you have to drive to suburbia. So why even bother living in the city when you have to drive to the burbs for everything?

But back on the original topic... DFW cost of living is quickly approaching Chicago, but really lacks in a big city living experience.

I think you are trying to justify your dislike for this place. It is perfectly normal to not like DFW if it did not meet your expectations. But it is a BIG city with world class amenities. Life is too short to be unhappy in a place. Move to a city that meets your expectations (I know it is easier said than done)

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by #1soonerfan

Not disagreeing with this but I don't think Chicago is the best comparison to DFW for the simple fact that it is much more established and older than this area. I would compare this area to other "new" sunbelt metros like Houston or Atlanta....of course Dallas is now more expensive than both of these cities.

Except that what you're saying isn't true. These are the median sale prices through Q2 2016:

Atlanta metro = $233k (Fulton County, i.e. Alpharetta & other upper end suburbs $375k) + a state income tax rate up to 6%
Houston metro = $230k
US Median = $187k
DFW = $184k (Collin County $315k)

[lepoisson]

Originally Posted by fwsavemoney

I think you are trying to justify your dislike for this place. It is perfectly normal to not like DFW if it did not meet your expectations. But it is a BIG city with world class amenities. Life is too short to be unhappy in a place. Move to a city that meets your expectations (I know it is easier said than done)

Not really. I guess I expected a little more. When you hear "4th largest metro" you expect it to be on up there with cities like NYC, Boston, Chicago, Philly, San Francisco, LA.

Anyone who has visited any of those cities should know that DFW is missing something to compete on that level.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by EDS_

COL-wise there are tremendous differences between DFW and Chicago. We live in a nice home on a big lot that's anywhere between 10 and 20 minutes from downtown and worth a little over $1M. Replicating all of that in Chicago would be 2.5 or 3x the cost at least and probably more, not sure we could find a .8 acre lot in Chicago at all. It's pretty clear most people don't understand that for most working in DT Chicago means living way out and taking the L and then walking to ones building so total commute times in Chicago are brutal for many professional people.

From a percentage of income vs. rents perspective Dallas is about 10% less expensive than Chicago as well according to Governing Magazine.

I like Chicago and visit often 3x this year as a matter of fact..........real estate is higher there. That gap isn't what it once was though.

Metra. they take Metra. :-)

I've posted a zillion times that Chicago has more "cultural stuff" than DFW overall, and that for a metro that is...4th to 6th or so largest in the country, DFW is probably closer to 9th or something in "cultural stuff", so it underperforms compared to its size*. But...we're still talking a top ten metro destination in the entire US. It's not like we're living in Peoria or Scranton here.

And having said that, DFW is "new" and rapidly growing. All those amenities in other cities are the result of decades if not centuries of immigration and development and everything. I often joke about our realtor asking if we'd consider an "older" house when we moved down "you know, built in the 90's".

I'm not a fan of the Metroplex, but that's because my favorite place in the US is probably Portland, OR. And as cool as it is, it doesn't have the scale of cultural amenities that DFW does (although it probably "outperforms" for its size). Everything is subjective, everyone has their own preferences. DFW is still more affordable than almost all large metros, but it is gradually changing.

*- purely subjective "talking out my...er, 'hat'". The 3 metros clearly larger than DFW are NY, LA, and Chicago. Ones that are roughly comparable in size but superior in cultural amenities are the SF Bay Area (the Census splits this CSA into two MSAs, I'd personally consider it one), Washington DC/Baltimore (I consider this 2 separate areas, but would take DC for culture over DFW. Then again, it is the nation's capital), and Boston (the CSA which is larger than DFW includes Providence, but no, that's not part of "Boston", so the Boston MSA is smaller). Philly and Miami are slightly smaller and I have no experience with either - friends who've lived in each say they have more amenities overall than DFW, but again, subjective).

[#1soonerfan]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Except that what you're saying isn't true. These are the median sale prices through Q2 2016:

Atlanta metro = $233k (Fulton County, i.e. Alpharetta & other upper end suburbs $375k) + a state income tax rate up to 6%
Houston metro = $230k
US Median = $187k
DFW = $184k (Collin County $315k)

I pulled my conclusion from this website here, which backs up this article in D Magazine last month. With all due respect, home prices in DFW surpassed 200K in early 2015 if not longer, so I have no idea where you got those figures.

[DTXman34]

Originally Posted by lepoisson

Here's the thing though... If you live in downtown Chicago, you don't need a car, you can walk anywhere. 99% of your needs will be within a 10 minute walk.

If you live in downtown Dallas, you definitely need a car to go anywhere. Grocery store... miles away. Clothing stores... miles away.

I don't consider Uptown, Oaklawn, etc a true city experience, even though they are in the city limits. Up near 75 and 635 is still in Dallas. Is that a city living experience?

You don't need a car to live in Downtown Dallas. It is a major transportation hub for DART rail, which basically can take you to all of your needs such as retail, groceries, etc. that may be limited or lacking in Downtown. It's also a rapidly changing place, with an increase of retail and residential population each year. It's not like we're talking about a stagnant Rust Belt city. What may be lacking today won't be tomorrow. This is a fast growing and evolving city.

Uptown is a fairly urban neighborhood and would fit in most cities. Of course you'll pass the occasional strip mall there, but that's quickly changing. There's sections of Uptown that are a bit too heavy on residential but not enough retail. Again, that's constantly evolving as more and more move there. Overall in Uptown, you have access to walking/cycling trails, urban shopping destinations such as West Village, walkable nightlife, parks, grocery stores, etc. In many apartment complexes, cars collect dust!

Also, keep in mind that Dallas is the 9th largest city, not the 4th. If you want to see an absolute embarrassment of a city at #4, drive 4 hours south to Houston. The city living experience in that city is much worse than Dallas!

[fwsavemoney]

Originally Posted by lepoisson

Not really. I guess I expected a little more. When you hear "4th largest metro" you expect it to be on up there with cities like NYC, Boston, Chicago, Philly, San Francisco, LA.

Anyone who has visited any of those cities should know that DFW is missing something to compete on that level.

The only difference between the cities that you list and DFW is the urbanity. All the big cities amenities still exist in DFW. Sounds like you prefer more established older cities.

[lepoisson]

Originally Posted by DTXman34

Also, keep in mind that Dallas is the 9th largest city, not the 4th. If you want to see an absolute embarrassment of a city at #4, drive 4 hours south to Houston. The city living experience in that city is much worse than Dallas!

It's funny you mention this. I actually found downtown Houston to be much more livable than downtown Dallas. I don't have any experience with other areas of Houston though.

That being said, Austin and Fort Worth have more livable downtown areas than both Dallas and Houston (which both feel more like business districts).

[qwerty14]

We moved from NJ(after having visited/lived in New York, DC, Philadelphia), my take is:

Pros:

1. Relatively low crime rates compared to the cities I listed and also including chicago. It is surprising for a city with open carry laws
2. High quality suburbs. Be it the suburbs like plano, frisco or the mid-cities, the quality of life in suburbs is better than ones in northeast. There are all the family amenities at a driving distance
3. No state income tax. This is a killer in northeast, especially in NYC putting their city taxes on top
4. Cleanest city I have seen so far, including comparing suburbs
5, Great people, no question the people in texas are far more cultured and courteous

Cons:

1. Downtown scene is limited. Yes there is uptown area but the nightlife and the general entertainment scene is nowhere close the cities I have mentioned
2. Public transport needs improvement. For me the DART is below par any of the cities in northeast or chicago have. The buses are too few and DART trains are painfully slow and have only a very few lines. I believe we need a DART line along 121 and 635 and trains need to get faster
3. City is expanding, which is a positive but I dont want DFW to become another houston with the expansion. So the need for #2 - a high speed public transport system
4. Outdoor attractions are limited. I used to remember having so many options for outdoor attractions but honestly they are limited here