08-17-2012, 04:27 PM
53 posts, read
143,037 times
Reputation: 79
Based on some preliminary analysis (won't bore you with all the numbers), it would seem that while property values have stagnated since 2007, rent has shot up significantly. This means that landlords are essentially cashing in on massive profit margins, correct?
I am renting a house for about $3k a month right now (I'd buy but my work situation is pretty volatile right now, so don't want to be stuck in a place), which is almost DOUBLE what I'd be paying if I owned the place and was just making mortgage payments (even with property tax included into the monthly mortgage payments). The interesting thing is that people are DESPERATE for rental houses around here, and are paying exorbitant rental prices for them.
Let's say that you had $450k to invest. You bought three $150k houses, and turned around and rented them out for $1600 each (about what rent would be on a $150k house right now around here). Let's say annual property taxes are about $4500 per house, HOA dues are about $1000 a year, and you spend about $500 on maintenance per house per year and $1500 on home owner's insurance per year
In one year, you will make 3*(1600*12-4500 - 1000 - 500 - 1500) = $35,100
$450,000 divided by $35,100 is 12.82, which means that, assuming rent remains static through 13 years, you just broke even in 13 years. Oh, but now, let's say you sell all three houses (and let's assume property values are the same) after 13 years. You just made about $450k. You are basically doubling your investment in less than 15 years...and if property values go UP in those 13 years, well you just made even more money!! Not bad at all!
I'm looking to put some of my money to use in investing, and was wondering if perhaps this is a good idea. Do you landlords out there have any advice on whether or not my numbers are anywhere close to reality? I know very little about real estate, so you'll have to forgive me.
Anyone have any advice on how to get this ball rolling if it seems to be like a feasible business plan?
08-17-2012, 04:48 PM
Location: Houston, Tx
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Reputation: 1527
This is so true
Right now is the best time I have ever seen to invest in rentals in Texas. We are enjoying low prices combined with low interest rates and Very high rent. This is the perfect storm for investors.
08-18-2012, 01:40 AM
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read
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Reputation: 28559
If I had the spare cash lying around, I'd be in the market right now.
08-18-2012, 06:13 AM
Location: Plano, TX
1,007 posts, read
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Reputation: 1148
Why are you assuming your house will be rented for 12 months in a year? You should take off a month between renters and time to do repairs / maintenance / cleanup. It might be better to 'force' a month off (or 2 weeks or something) because around here because it might be optimal to get the renter around the time the school year starts, etc.
You pay income taxes on rental income.
Do you have time to find the renters, do the showings, do all the maintenance yourself? If not, you need to pay a property manager to find the renters, and/or take care of the maintenance. Also, if you take care of property maintenance, are you ready to be disrupted at weird hours of the night for simple stuff, or interrupt doing your regular job. Also, keep in mind many renters hide problems that aren't a big deal to them because they don't want to pay for the repair.
You should be spending more than $500 a year on maintenance, upgrades, ... Renters typically treat their properties worse than homeowners. Also, if you are renting now, you probably don't have the tools to do the job, and need to experiment a little to get the job done right. On my personal property, I upgrade things to higher quality when the original builder grade items need fixes or repairs. On a rental property one is likely worried about a more 'consistent' look.
Also, when you sell the house, typically the seller pays the commission.
08-18-2012, 07:32 AM
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Reputation: 2104
There are a lot of costs you do not include.
First, cost of money. Interest rate plus inflation is around 7%.
Second, depreciation. Use a 15 year scale. Or, cost of repairs. Pick one. They are about the same. Some years its low - maybe $1K and others its really bad. Round $10K.
Next, you need a property manager. That can be you or someone else. But its a real cost. Figure 20 hours a month for those three houses at $25 an hour. Mileage, etc, too.
Next, unless you find a stellar renter who is there every year, you will have the house empty at least one month a year. Deduct that income.
Finally, at least on year out of two for those three homes, your renter will do something and need to be evicted. Add $2000 to your costs. Or, they will sue you for something dumb.
Taxes. Rental income is passive income. If you have a day job and do not do this as your primary job - and who does not - you cannot deduct the above costs as a going concern. HELLO! So you have to pay taxes on ALL the revenue not the profit. OUCH. That's 20-35% off the top!!
Market. Some years you are the bug and some years you are the windshield. You can make it up in the good years.
Then there is the emotional toll.
Running a business is just that - its a business. Some people have the idea that its just gravy. It isn't. Its very hard work and you have to deal with problems all the time. And its Risky. Not only is your money on the line, but so it your family life, your free time, and your reputation. Sometimes you have conflicts that put you at odds with good friends who are vendors. Or people you trusted have personal problems and you can no longer trust them. Or weirdos come along and sue you or stalk you. Or try to cheat you or scam you.
The best real estate investment I made in TX is buying raw farmland and holding it for 10-20 years. 100-200 acres off a major blacktop withing 45 min of Dallas is a good buy.
I'd also watch the movie The Money Pit with Tom Hanks. Its close to the truth.
08-18-2012, 07:38 AM
13,194 posts, read
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Reputation: 13142
You're missing a few things:
1. If there is a realtor involved in the rental transaction (even on tenant's side), you'll pay 50% of first month's rent to each agent. So just count on 11 months of rental income each year.
2. But then....it's rare that one tenant will move out on the 31st and the next will come in on the 1st. You'll most likely need a little time to clean and / or repair carpet and touch up other things. So really count on 10 months of rental income and make sure you can afford the mortgages if at some point the market isn't as hot as it is now.
3. Maintenance will run over $500/year! I rent out my little uptown condo to a great tenant (very responsible middle-aged divorcee) and will have spent about $400 getting it ready for move in (carpet clean & deep clean) and about $400 on misc repairs (ice-maker stopped working, tub drain clogged, window leak, etc). I'm in a high rise where HOA sues cover a lot of things a single family home landlord would need to cover- exterminator, changing a/c filters 2X per year, yard, tree trimming & maintenance, etc.
4. Taxes! Rental income is taxable income on your 1040. Some of your expenses can be deducted from your rental income to lower the taxable amount, but not all.
08-18-2012, 08:37 AM
Location: Simmering in DFW
6,952 posts, read
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Reputation: 7297
If you pay cash for your properties and manage them youself as an "active business" your calculations are not terrible. Repairs, maintenance and improvements at $500 annual could be possible if the property is very new. The most desirable properties are close in to the city so usually not so new.....which means HVAC, fencing, roof, garage door replacements, water heaters, etc. I manage my properties myself and they are mortgage free. My annual after taxes ROI after all costs averages about 9% for my properties combined. I spend one half day biweekly driving by the rentals doing a visual drive-by inspection. If something is amiss with the place, I immediatelycontact the tenants and then go back in a few days for a recheck. If something is amiss on the street, I contact the police or code enforcement. My point: this is not "free money" and like everything else must be earned..
This market is very hot and I have not had a single day of vacancy in 4 years. My tenants have done an excellent job of move-out cleanup and we work overnight if needed to turn the place over to the new tenants. I also offer below market 2-year leases which, ultimately, save me money in turnover expenses.
A couple of other thoughts: there is no guarantee that the money invested in property or anythng else will increase in value or remain stable. So the 9% I am presently achieving is only good now and may be the best I will ever do. Maybe I will sell those places at a loss. Maybe if I had my money as cash I would have other/better investments opportunities or at least have liquidity to respond to other investment opportunities or even move easily from this area when we retire. Your present landlords may have a mortgage on your place and be "underwater" and actually be achieving no profit at all. In my mind they best deals in real estate are in the "buy" -- not in the sell.
Last edited by Squirl; 08-18-2012 at 08:54 AM ..
Reason: more ideas
08-18-2012, 11:03 AM
Location: DFW
40,952 posts, read
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Reputation: 55000
"Easy Money for Landlords" is a contradiction of terms. Landlords seldom have anything easy.
05-20-2020, 11:18 AM
1 posts, read
1,452 times
Reputation: 14
You need to improve your plan
05-29-2020, 03:19 PM
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Reputation: 7634
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mercuryman007
You need to improve your plan
The OP was from eight years ago. I hope he bought as much real estate as he could back then. That would have been a great plan.
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House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
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Means of transportation to work - Drove car alone (%)
Means of transportation to work - Carpooled (%)
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Working at home (%)
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)