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Old 03-03-2017, 07:57 AM
 
48 posts, read 59,129 times
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This is not the case at our PISD elementary school. We do have fund raising events (Book Fair, Spirit Wear, Fall Festival, etc - none of which are mandatory to participate in) and donations can be made directly to the PTA, but the school does not send anything home with the children for fund raising.
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Old 03-03-2017, 01:12 PM
 
4,704 posts, read 8,484,772 times
Reputation: 1821
I'd like to see some school district consolidation in which as many property poor districts are married to property rich districts as possible and/or boundaries are redrawn so that districts are more equal in their property tax sourcing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DitsyD View Post
Short sighted thinking. Both Pre-K and ESL have the goal of helping students reach grade level ability. It is cheaper to help students with intensive classes led by trained teachers for a short time, than have these students hold back classes through the years that it would otherwise take them to catch up.

Totally agree thought that Robin Hood needs to go NOW. Robin Hood is state legislature mandated THEFT.
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Old 03-03-2017, 01:47 PM
 
12,128 posts, read 22,867,871 times
Reputation: 11039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterdragon8212 View Post
I do agree...it is called "public" education for a reason after all. I have always found it ironic that the most outspoken critics of Robin Hood tend to live in wealthy districts in order to live within the boundaries of high performing public school districts. To endorse and support the public school system but to believe your district should have substantially more cash than a neighboring district seems contradictory to me. The notion of free public education is essentially social welfare - should we give more/better/more expensive social welfare to the people with the most money?

I get feeling frustrated that the amount of money you are paying in taxes doesn't entirely benefit your neighborhood school, but the concept of public school was designed to ensure that educational opportunities are equally accessible and that quality of education is standardized. We all know they aren't and it isn't - HP and Carrol have consistently been ranked as 2 of the best districts in the state despite losing so much of their property tax to other schools. Can you imagine how much more skewed the difference between those schools and others would be if they kept all their money?

Fortunately for wealthy schools, their fundraising efforts tend to pay off. I'd wager that HP and Carrol are still cheaper than Dallas privates, even with the parent donations and property taxes included (of course that depends on just how expensive of a house you are living in.) Paying property taxes to fund other people's kids schooling (none of which goes to your child's education), paying $30 grand a year in tuition (not to mention all of the other costs), and still being hit up for fundraising...well that's a high price to pay for education. But people do it because it's worth it to them, because it opens doors and provides opportunity, because they value education. Maybe if the state and/or our society believed public schools were valuable and funded them accordingly, we wouldn't have to pay teachers so little and education could be improved across the board.
I don't have an issue with the intent of Robin Hood, but the execution. It's not just money that separates the best public schools from the worst, it's parental involvement, a well-run administration, and knowledgable and inspiring teachers. That's how HPISD has continued to thrive, despite sending over 70% of its property tax revenue to Austin for recapture. I think instead of the funds being sent to Austin for redistribution, Robin Hood should have paired rich districts with the recipient district(s) to help train and coach the administration, teachers, and PTA's. To lift up all schools, knowledge sharing is as important as sharing financial resources. Instead, HPISD's 70% goes into a faceless, nameless pot in Austin and is sent who knows where with little accountability. It's well documented that after the law passed in the early 1990's, many poor districts immediately built new athletic facilities and football stadiums and didn't invest in teacher development training or replacing outdated STEM equipment.

If HPISD kept most of all of its property taxes, the school cafeterias would not be serving caviar and filet mignon. The district has a good track record of being responsible financial stewards and would likely vote to significantly lower the property tax rate. The district would also be able to pay teacher salaries at the top of the public school range, compared to their current salaries which are lower than average for the DFW area. . I'm sure parents would be thrilled to cease the need to raise $3M a year through the district's Mad for Plaid campaign which funds about 5% of teacher payroll as well as other school improvements not in the district's budget - ie, upgrading science lab equipment or paying for development training.

Regarding HPISD vs privates, two kids is the historical breakeven point where choosing HPISD over private schools makes financial sense.
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Old 03-03-2017, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Yankee loves Dallas
561 posts, read 803,407 times
Reputation: 779
Relevant:

1. https://www.cato.org/publications/po...ion-experiment

2. https://www.cato.org/blog/public-sch...g-theres-chart
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:33 PM
 
449 posts, read 321,169 times
Reputation: 1056
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
I don't have an issue with the intent of Robin Hood, but the execution. It's not just money that separates the best public schools from the worst, it's parental involvement, a well-run administration, and knowledgable and inspiring teachers. That's how HPISD has continued to thrive, despite sending over 70% of its property tax revenue to Austin for recapture. I think instead of the funds being sent to Austin for redistribution, Robin Hood should have paired rich districts with the recipient district(s) to help train and coach the administration, teachers, and PTA's. To lift up all schools, knowledge sharing is as important as sharing financial resources. Instead, HPISD's 70% goes into a faceless, nameless pot in Austin and is sent who knows where with little accountability. It's well documented that after the law passed in the early 1990's, many poor districts immediately built new athletic facilities and football stadiums and didn't invest in teacher development training or replacing outdated STEM equipment.

If HPISD kept most of all of its property taxes, the school cafeterias would not be serving caviar and filet mignon. The district has a good track record of being responsible financial stewards and would likely vote to significantly lower the property tax rate. The district would also be able to pay teacher salaries at the top of the public school range, compared to their current salaries which are lower than average for the DFW area. . I'm sure parents would be thrilled to cease the need to raise $3M a year through the district's Mad for Plaid campaign which funds about 5% of teacher payroll as well as other school improvements not in the district's budget - ie, upgrading science lab equipment or paying for development training.

Regarding HPISD vs privates, two kids is the historical breakeven point where choosing HPISD over private schools makes financial sense.
I agree that blindly throwing money at the problem doesn't help - they system itself has to change. Standardized tests, busywork, and poor teachers don't motivate kids to learn or even be interested in learning. Clearly, building new athletic facilities shouldn't be the priority - for any schools - whether low achieving ones or high-achieving suburban ones who want ultra-stadiums.

I don't know how I feel about the idea of HP cutting property tax rates even further, given they already have one of the very lowest rates in the area. I'm no economist and I don't want to start a political war here, but it seems that in general, cutting tax rates for the wealthy has caused quite the political firestorm as of late.

The parental influence piece can't be underestimated. We know that kids with absent parents can still be influenced by highly-motivated and creative teachers, but where is the point at which it becomes impossible to make up for what is going on at home or in the neighborhood? We seem to know by now what doesn't work - but what does? Since brain growth is most significant from 0 to 3 (and they are now including conception to 3 in those numbers), how do we get to kids during that time period? And how can we foster a love of learning in early school years that can take kids from kinder through 12th grade? Both the chronic, low motivation at the lower end of the SES spectrum and the special snowflake syndrome of the higher ends of the SES spectrum are problematic and I have yet to hear anyone even talking about that issue in school reform.

I don't have any good answers, but it does seem like we should be asking different questions. Every time I hear a politician talk about school reform, I get frustrated by the lack of societal and psychological avenues of thought.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:45 PM
 
12,128 posts, read 22,867,871 times
Reputation: 11039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterdragon8212 View Post

I don't know how I feel about the idea of HP cutting property tax rates even further, given they already have one of the very lowest rates in the area. I'm no economist and I don't want to start a political war here, but it seems that in general, cutting tax rates for the wealthy has caused quite the political firestorm as of late.
Disclaimer: I don't live in HPISD.

Since you don't live in HPISD, you have no right to an opinion on "how [you] feel" about HPISD cutting tax rates (in an imaginary world where Robin Hood doesn't exist). Since the average home value in HPISD is about 5X the average home value in all of DFW, HPISD could in theory have a tax rate that is 80% below the average DFW ISD (vs the current rate that is about 15-20% less) and be operating on an equal dollar per student budget. Considering, HPISD already sends 70% of its property tax income to the state, being able to cut the tax rate significantly (60-70% range) isn't that far-fetched with Robin Hood out of the picture.

It's not the tax rate that pays the bills, but the tax dollar bill. Warren Buffet's tax rate may be half what mine is but his tax bill is about 70X larger than mine. I have no problem with that and neither should rational thinkers.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:59 PM
 
449 posts, read 321,169 times
Reputation: 1056
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
Disclaimer: I don't live in HPISD.

Since you don't live in HPISD, you have no right to an opinion on "how [you] feel" about HPISD cutting tax rates (in an imaginary world where Robin Hood doesn't exist). Since the average home value in HPISD is about 5X the average home value in all of DFW, HPISD could in theory have a tax rate that is 80% below the average DFW ISD (vs the current rate that is about 15-20% less) and be operating on an equal dollar per student budget. Considering, HPISD already sends 70% of its property tax income to the state, being able to cut the tax rate significantly (60-70% range) isn't that far-fetched with Robin Hood out of the picture.

It's not the tax rate that pays the bills, but the tax dollar bill. Warren Buffet's tax rate may be half what mine is but his tax bill is about 70X larger than mine. I have no problem with that and neither should rational thinkers.
Perhaps not, but FWIW, I do have immediate family who live in HPISD. Their feelings regarding the recent incident at the high school and the general population's perception of the area do matter to me.

And for the record, that's why I didn't state an opinion. Perhaps I should have been more explicit, since you clearly read my statement as having a different meaning than I intended. I don't live there and I understand the basics of taxation, but knowing how this type of thing would be likely to play out in the media, I fear for the vitriol that has already been flung at my siblings and their 4 children in the district.

Last edited by Waterdragon8212; 03-03-2017 at 06:17 PM..
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