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Old 08-01-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
2,502 posts, read 2,182,554 times
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One thing to look at is the support system the school provide to first gen students. Some are better than others. I would also look at how good the schools are at increasing their aid packages in pace with tuition inflation and at offering the same level packages each year of school. Some schools are notorious for offering sweetheart financial aid packages the first year and not following up with similar packages the following years. I know more than one student who either dropped out or transferred because their aid packages weren't big enough their sophomore years. I would also try to minimize the amount in loans he has to take out since he won't have the financial safety net a lot of his classmates will have. Finally, does the aid package require anything such as minimum GPAs that will be too stressful for him to fulfill.
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:32 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,949,828 times
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Originally Posted by numbersguy100 View Post
If he wants to work in finance, Wharton and Stanford are going to put him leagues ahead of NYU or SMU or even Chicago, even if he wants to work in Dallas (though Chicago is still well ahead of SMU and NYU).

If he is positive he wants to stay in Dallas, has very strong family ties to the area to the point of not being able to wrap his mind around the idea of leaving (often common in minority communities in my anecdotal experience), then SMU's presidents scholar program is worth considering. I was awarded it and they pitch you hard on the fact that they pair you with an alum or important donor in your field of interest and you basically spend your time in school networking with the who's who of Dallas in business, art, or whatever field you like. This is the only scenario in which I would suggest attending SMU. I would be careful about attending on need-based financial aid rather than a generous merit scholarship.

As a note on NYU, it is not very generous with need based aid even to people of low means. A neighbor is a single mom with a teaching job with very middle class income. Her daughter got Effectively full rides (need based) to the top tier schools including Amherst, and NYU still expected her mom to contribute about $20k a year on what I suspect is a household income of about $48k at most.
NYU has a very weak endowment (relative to its peer institutions) and is notorious for this.

Again, my #1 bit of advice is to not box yourself in too early at this stage. Apply to a variety of schools, and evaluate all your options once all the cards are on the table. Too many factors to consider (aid package, city, student, etc.) to really decide at this stage. Only catch is all the money needed for application fees.
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:41 PM
 
3,678 posts, read 4,134,584 times
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Originally Posted by unexpected View Post
Housing at these top schools is all included. At places like Stanford, etc., you're required to live all four years on campus. It's not like UT where you can get an apartment your freshman year!

Tickets are definitely something to consider. You'll be home 3 times a year, at 300-400 a pop - that's $1200. An expense, for sure, but something that can be managed (work during this summer, raise money through the church, etc.)

I would always apply first, and then process reality later. You never know what kind of scholarships, etc. are available.
Housing during summer vacations is included as well?
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:34 PM
 
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My experience is not recent but I went to an elite school many years ago and received significant financial aid and two round trip plane tickets home were included in the calculation of need. Summer housing was NOT included. In general elite schools have gotten more generous since I was in college, but I do know that 25+years ago they did include travel but did not include summer housing in the financial need calculation .
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:54 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 1,755,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unexpected View Post
NYU has a very weak endowment (relative to its peer institutions) and is notorious for this.

Again, my #1 bit of advice is to not box yourself in too early at this stage. Apply to a variety of schools, and evaluate all your options once all the cards are on the table. Too many factors to consider (aid package, city, student, etc.) to really decide at this stage. Only catch is all the money needed for application fees.
Low income students typically have app fee waived. In fact, the student I referenced earlier received free flights to visit schools after acceptance because wealthy private schools have enough money to do that for lower income students who get in.
But I agree that there's no reason to limit choices at this stage. Go big rather than wondering if you can make it work by settling for SMU.
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UnfairPark View Post
Housing during summer vacations is included as well?
Most students return home for summer vacation. In reality, you only have two summers to worry about - summer after freshman year, and summer after soph year (usually after junior year, you're trying for an internship of some sorts).

You could take summer school at your institution, and there ways to pay for it. There are a million jobs on campus. I had a friend who's job it was to cold call alumni to solicit donations during the summer. I had several other friends who got free housing and a stipend to help with research.

Summer is also usually a lot cheaper than classes in the fall/spring.
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Old 08-02-2017, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Yankee loves Dallas
616 posts, read 1,035,570 times
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I'm not trying to give a comprehensive opinion here, but to focus on one particular aspect of it -- the culture shock from home to college, which is a big deal for everyone, but especially for a lower-income student in an an upper-income student body.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ist-university
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...m-60.html?_r=0

23% of students at SMU are from families in the top 1% of household income, while 3.3% of the student body comes from families in the lowest 20% of household income. That is definitely one of the wealthiest student bodies in the country. Personally, I often feel a bit poor when I walk through an SMU student parking lot.

SMU could be a great place for him -- I'm just pointing to that one aspect of it. In any case, is he aware of programs like QuestBridge and Posse that exist in order to help low-income kids with the transition?

https://www.questbridge.org/about/mission-and-vision
https://www.possefoundation.org/about-posse
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:31 PM
 
19,545 posts, read 17,806,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnfairPark View Post
Indulge me by discussing pros and cons of SMU for a minority student with a really good resume and interest in economics and finance. He is eligible for full financial aid so money isn't an issue for him. I was paired with him through our church to help him navigate college admission process.
IMO you should ask the young man what he really wants to do via open ended questions. IMO he really cannot/should not attempt to study both finance and economics at the undergraduate level - he needs to pick one. Push him a little to understand his "math tolerance". Amongst solid UG programs finance is math and low level algebra heavy. Economics is much more demanding in that area.

Both econ. and finance are excellent undergraduate levers into graduate and law schools. Finance, assuming strong grades can be a direct lever into the business world. An economics BS/BA alone is less so. A BS finance is quite narrow and BS/BA econ. is much more broad.

IMO so much as a kid contemplating an undergrad path can do so.........he needs to make a call now/soon.

1. Is a BS/BA his ultimate goal? If so study finance.

2. If an MBA/law school is the goal study finance. With respect to all finance folks 90 out of 100 people would find finance an easier, or at least more straightforward, course of study than economics.

3. The caveat being if the kiddo's math-foo is strong and he gets into a "better" econ. program than finance program IMO he should go the econ. route or at least think about it hard.

4. IMO if the kiddo is as bright as I'm thinking he must be. He should take the SMU UG offer or something similar, kill it and then reach for the stars in grad school.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:07 AM
 
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My brother knew a retired guidance counselor who agreed to take this kid's case pro bono. He is in right hands now.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:02 AM
 
Location: 89052 & 75206
8,102 posts, read 8,254,577 times
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SMU has a good mix of students so I wouldn't dismiss it for lack of diversity. I lease out a condo very near campus and my overall take is that the students are generally kids from burb areas and SMU is in many ways an extension of the "bubble" they came from.
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