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No one is doubting the basics of supply and demand or the potential for people to switch fields and make more money. But different people are in different situations for different reasons, and I think a bit more of an understanding ear is in order. Sometimes I think people on this forum believe the TOS states "You must be a jackass in order to post."
When a person says "It has gotten expensive to live here," they may not be saying "Relative to other comparable metros, it is expensive to live here." They might just be saying "It has gotten difficult for me to afford living here." That isn't an incorrect usage of the word "expensive," which is as objective as the word "tall." To someone who is 5', a person who is 5'7" might be "tall." To someone who is 6'2", tall might mean something else. Neither is wrong because the statement "He is tall" doesn't imply any sort of objective measure.
Exactly. There's two different points going by here. On the one hand, there's the assertion that DFW is more expensive than it used to be. In nominal terms this is obviously true, and it may well be true when adjusted for inflation. It may also be true relative to other large metros (or not), as we don't have data on how "affordable" DFW was 5 or 10 or 20 years ago relative to other cities.
The second point is that as of right now, DFW is "affordable" relative to other large metro areas. The study presented would affirm that this is true. One can take issue with details of the study, but I would argue that most data would support that premise.
It is entirely possible that DFW has become more expensive relative to other cities over the last X many years. This has nothing to do with one's drive or determination or whatever, but rather is driven by data. It also appears that DFW remains relatively inexpensive compared to other major metros overall. Again, it's just data. How we feel about all of that is a different matter. We can argue that cities overall are becoming less "affordable" (or not). We can debate what individuals could possibly do to improve their situation and/or how difficult that might be, but all of that is a much larger discussion.
(To extend Wittgenstein's analogy, DFW may have been formerly been 5'3". Maybe now it's 5'7". Maybe the "average" major metro is 5'10". In this case it's true that DFW has become "taller", but it remains "considerably shorter than average". Arguments about what to eat to get taller or wearing elevator shoes or whatever are interesting, but since we're talking about huge metro areas that combined have tens of millions of people, I'll go out on a limb and say that some of the people there are driven disciplined workaholics and some are lazy bums, but those percentages likely have not changed in the last X years, and DFW's population mix is likely not materially different from every other city out there.)
Exactly. There's two different points going by here. On the one hand, there's the assertion that DFW is more expensive than it used to be. In nominal terms this is obviously true, and it may well be true when adjusted for inflation. It may also be true relative to other large metros (or not), as we don't have data on how "affordable" DFW was 5 or 10 or 20 years ago relative to other cities.
The second point is that as of right now, DFW is "affordable" relative to other large metro areas. The study presented would affirm that this is true. One can take issue with details of the study, but I would argue that most data would support that premise.
It is entirely possible that DFW has become more expensive relative to other cities over the last X many years. This has nothing to do with one's drive or determination or whatever, but rather is driven by data. It also appears that DFW remains relatively inexpensive compared to other major metros overall. Again, it's just data. How we feel about all of that is a different matter. We can argue that cities overall are becoming less "affordable" (or not). We can debate what individuals could possibly do to improve their situation and/or how difficult that might be, but all of that is a much larger discussion.
(To extend Wittgenstein's analogy, DFW may have been formerly been 5'3". Maybe now it's 5'7". Maybe the "average" major metro is 5'10". In this case it's true that DFW has become "taller", but it remains "considerably shorter than average". Arguments about what to eat to get taller or wearing elevator shoes or whatever are interesting, but since we're talking about huge metro areas that combined have tens of millions of people, I'll go out on a limb and say that some of the people there are driven disciplined workaholics and some are lazy bums, but those percentages likely have not changed in the last X years, and DFW's population mix is likely not materially different from every other city out there.)
I just think people take what they have here for granted because it was so so cheap for so long. For example you can live in Frisco, Plano, Bedford, NRH, Keller, Grapevine, Lewisville, Denton, Highland Village, Flower Mound, Euless, etc for what I would consider absolutely acceptable amounts. These would be considered nice neighborhoods to the majority of people. You can do so if two people are working normal jobs, such as a marketing person, an accountant, a plumber, a realtor, a software engineer, a teacher, a sales person, etc. Combined maybe they make $100,000 to $120,000 a year. The fact that if you make this much you can live in a premier suburb and house comparatively speaking is amazing to me.
If you took the same income and same housing costs and look at LA, SD, Seattle, Boston, NYC, Philly, Miami, Denver, SF, SD, DC, etc. you will end up in an absolute craphole. It is not the norm to be able to live in premier suburbs and neighborhoods working solid normal jobs but that is exactly what DFW provides and I think that is incredible.
I think the problem with Marie Antoinette above me is that like the tragic French queen, he lacks empathy. So let me repaint the issue in terms he and the other snobs will understand.
Let's say you are a respectable white collar professional here in DFW, an engineer and you make $100,000 a year. It's pretty good money and with this income you are able to have a good quality of life. After 20 years of this, all the engineering companies start slashing salaries, slowly at first (1% per year) but soon after rapidly rising amounts (10% per year) so that what was once a $100,000 salary is now $60,000 and that's just 5 years later.
So tell me kyam Would you feel good? And more importantly how would you feel if certain people told you "stop whining, you should be in constant orgasmic joy with your $60K. I moved here from Afghanistan where your profession gets paid $8K a year, DFW is great! and here's a chart/useless article proving it!
See how annoying that sounds? That's the same way we feel about you and anyone else who keep trying to tell us how great the skyrocketing prices are. We don't care what housing costs are in LA or NY. Sorry.
I guess it depends on the job and company. The salary range for my job with the UT system hadn't changed in 10 years. It was likely good enough for DFW 2008 COL, but certainly not for 2017.
I'm guessing there is 1 chance in 1000 your claim UT's salary range for your old job is correct.
I think the problem with Marie Antoinette above me is that like the tragic French queen, he lacks empathy. So let me repaint the issue in terms he and the other snobs will understand.
Let's say you are a respectable white collar professional here in DFW, an engineer and you make $100,000 a year. It's pretty good money and with this income you are able to have a good quality of life. After 20 years of this, all the engineering companies start slashing salaries, slowly at first (1% per year) but soon after rapidly rising amounts (10% per year) so that what was once a $100,000 salary is now $60,000 and that's just 5 years later.
So tell me kyam Would you feel good? And more importantly how would you feel if certain people told you "stop whining, you should be in constant orgasmic joy with your $60K. I moved here from Afghanistan where your profession gets paid $8K a year, DFW is great! and here's a chart/useless article proving it!
See how annoying that sounds? That's the same way we feel about you and anyone else who keep trying to tell us how great the skyrocketing prices are. We don't care what housing costs are in LA or NY. Sorry.
CPI type inflation here hasn't been 10% yoy ever.
The CPI-U (urban index for Dallas) from July 2016 - July 2017 was 1.9%.....with simialr numbers going back for years.
Exactly. There's two different points going by here. On the one hand, there's the assertion that DFW is more expensive than it used to be. In nominal terms this is obviously true, and it may well be true when adjusted for inflation. It may also be true relative to other large metros (or not), as we don't have data on how "affordable" DFW was 5 or 10 or 20 years ago relative to other cities.
The second point is that as of right now, DFW is "affordable" relative to other large metro areas. The study presented would affirm that this is true. One can take issue with details of the study, but I would argue that most data would support that premise.
It is entirely possible that DFW has become more expensive relative to other cities over the last X many years. This has nothing to do with one's drive or determination or whatever, but rather is driven by data. It also appears that DFW remains relatively inexpensive compared to other major metros overall. Again, it's just data. How we feel about all of that is a different matter. We can argue that cities overall are becoming less "affordable" (or not). We can debate what individuals could possibly do to improve their situation and/or how difficult that might be, but all of that is a much larger discussion.
(To extend Wittgenstein's analogy, DFW may have been formerly been 5'3". Maybe now it's 5'7". Maybe the "average" major metro is 5'10". In this case it's true that DFW has become "taller", but it remains "considerably shorter than average". Arguments about what to eat to get taller or wearing elevator shoes or whatever are interesting, but since we're talking about huge metro areas that combined have tens of millions of people, I'll go out on a limb and say that some of the people there are driven disciplined workaholics and some are lazy bums, but those percentages likely have not changed in the last X years, and DFW's population mix is likely not materially different from every other city out there.)
The problem is how be feel is rubbish, within this context anyway. What is - is what matters.
I wish to goodness all college students were forced to take 10/12 hours of macro-economics.
The problem is how be feel is rubbish, within this context anyway. What is - is what matters.
I wish to goodness all college students were forced to take 10/12 hours of macro-economics.
But, if someone complains that DFW has "become more expensive", even compared to other metros out there, they may very well be correct. (Or not, we don't have the data to know that).
However, that doesn't change the fact that DFW remains quite inexpensive compared to other metros out there overall. It just may not be as inexpensive as it used to be (or, maybe it is. Maybe everywhere else has increased in price as much or more than DFW has, relative to incomes, yadda yadda).
Everything else is...well, everything else.
I'm sure there are people who have seen their own purchasing power decline over the last X years, in spite of being hard working, disciplined people. Sometimes various industries go in a bad direction. Sometimes lazy idiots are in the right place at the right time and get rewarded beyond their skills. That happens, too. But again, we're talking large metros with millions of people, so that all kind of works out in the wash. DFW remains quite affordable relative to other US Metro areas based on overall incomes and costs of living. I have no idea if it is "not as affordable" by those measures than it was 10 or 15 years ago. I have no idea if other metro areas are more or less affordable by those same measures, or how much any of them have changed in affordability relative to DFW.
CPI type inflation here hasn't been 10% yoy ever.
The CPI-U (urban index for Dallas) from July 2016 - July 2017 was 1.9%.....with simialr numbers going back for years.
But, if someone complains that DFW has "become more expensive", even compared to other metros out there, they may very well be correct. (Or not, we don't have the data to know that).
However, that doesn't change the fact that DFW remains quite inexpensive compared to other metros out there overall. It just may not be as inexpensive as it used to be (or, maybe it is. Maybe everywhere else has increased in price as much or more than DFW has, relative to incomes, yadda yadda).
Everything else is...well, everything else.
I'm sure there are people who have seen their own purchasing power decline over the last X years, in spite of being hard working, disciplined people. Sometimes various industries go in a bad direction. Sometimes lazy idiots are in the right place at the right time and get rewarded beyond their skills. That happens, too. But again, we're talking large metros with millions of people, so that all kind of works out in the wash. DFW remains quite affordable relative to other US Metro areas based on overall incomes and costs of living. I have no idea if it is "not as affordable" by those measures than it was 10 or 15 years ago. I have no idea if other metro areas are more or less affordable by those same measures, or how much any of them have changed in affordability relative to DFW.
Kill me now
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