National Merit Semifinalists 2018 (Princeton, Howe: income, rich, activities)

[UnfairPark]

Every school needs show ponies.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by jiping

There is more serious work from Harvard.
https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~mrbwo..._Aries_RHE.pdf

For 2004 Freshmen sample,
Athletes has 1394 SAT(96 percentile), while Non-athletes has 1460 SAT (98.5 percentile).

Jeff Sessions just said DOJ will probe Harvard's admissions policy, and hopefully we are able to see more fresh raw data as EDS_ are.

1. Data from 15 years ago is 2 generations stale vis a vis this topic...the Ivies have upped athletic minimum standards at least twice since then.
2. Sessions' probe of Harvard etc. has nearly nothing to do with athletics and a lot to do with better students being sent away in preference of students who fit a racial profile Harvard prefers.
3. All it takes to understand what I am talking about vis a vis Ivy athletics is a kid (in my case 2 kids) who have been through an Ivy recruitment process and the dovetailing paperwork. I stand by what I said above.......likely there isn't a single Ivy kid in any sport outside football and basketball with a 625+625+625 SAT and a 3.2 unweighted GPA. And including football and bb we are talking about a couple of dozen kids across the league not hundreds.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

That probe will be dead in the water in no time flat.

I'm thinking not. There are specific public comments from Harvard people that are more or less damning, "we don't want to look like another Berkeley" (IIR the quote correctly) being item 1............referring to why Harvard sends away so many ultra qualified Asians in favor of less, and often, far less qualified historical minorities.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by EDS_

I'm thinking not. There are specific public comments from Harvard people that are more or less damning, "we don't want to look like another Berkeley" (IIR the quote correctly) being item 1............referring to why Harvard sends away so many ultra qualified Asians in favor of less, and often, far less qualified historical minorities.

Wow at that comment.

We all know what they probably meant by that but proving that legally is another story. Also i’m not sure what part of ‘private’ people don’t understand with these schools. Right or wrong they dont have to admit anyone through anyone else's criteria of what’s ‘fair’.

Ivy League admissions haven't been purely merit based in lord knows how long. To me this is akin to rich families complaining about all the financial aid cases the Ivies choose to admit when there are far more financially qualified families that ‘should’ have had their kids attending. And yes, they actually do. In private.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by kyam11

Very good point as well.

For example. Contrary to what some media outlets say Richard Sherman who went to Stanford got around a 4.0GPA but got around 1000 on his SAT. Second time he got below an 1100. The school he went to was terrible and getting a 4.0 would be pretty easy for any decent student. Still he was good at football and Stanford wanted him.

1. Sherman was #2 in his class in one of the toughest neighborhoods in the country. On pretty good authority his SAT super-score was over 1200.

2. He didn't go to an Ivy.

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by EDS_

I'm thinking not. There are specific public comments from Harvard people that are more or less damning, "we don't want to look like another Berkeley" (IIR the quote correctly) being item 1............referring to why Harvard sends away so many ultra qualified Asians in favor of less, and often, far less qualified historical minorities.

Berkeley is located in midst of an Asian area and has lower in-state tuition. Harvard is in cold Boston area and costs a fortune. Most Asian parents prefer to keep kids at a drivable distance, Asian students won’t do mass exodus. Most Asians are educated upper middle class so not eligible for financial aid to ease Harvard expenses.Harvard needs to get over that paranoid fear of becoming an Asian school and loosing white applicants.

[kyam11]

Originally Posted by EDS_

1. Sherman was #2 in his class in one of the toughest neighborhoods in the country. On pretty good authority his SAT super-score was over 1200.

2. He didn't go to an Ivy.

That is incorrect. He did not get a 1200. That was a rumor. He got less than 1100. #2 at Dominguez is not hard. It is one of the worst schools in LA. My info is from someone who actually works for a scouting agency who I know well. Multiple scouting agencies all had him under 1100. They are 100% correct. They don't make mistakes like that.

Agreed he did not go to an Ivy. As for what you typed above about a 3.2GPA with a 1250 SAT (without writing) sounds about right. Most are probably above that, but the point is still the same which is the standards for admission are much lower if you are good at athletics.

Again a 3.6 with a 1380 if you play baseball or Soccer and the coach really wants you pretty much guarantees you are in.

Chris Young went to Yale with a 1300 on his SAT for baseball.

I also know numerous people who have been told as long as their kids gets 1200 on his SATs with good grades they are in.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by kyam11

That is incorrect. He did not get a 1200. That was a rumor. He got less than 1100. #2 at Dominguez is not hard. It is one of the worst schools in LA. My info is from someone who actually works for a scouting agency who I know well. Multiple scouting agencies all had him under 1100. They are 100% correct. They don't make mistakes like that.

Agreed he did not go to an Ivy. As for what you typed above about a 3.2GPA with a 1250 SAT (without writing) sounds about right. Most are probably above that, but the point is still the same which is the standards for admission are much lower if you are good at athletics.

Again a 3.6 with a 1380 if you play baseball or Soccer and the coach really wants you pretty much guarantees you are in.

Chris Young went to Yale with a 1300 on his SAT for baseball.

I also know numerous people who have been told as long as their kids gets 1200 on his SATs with good grades they are in.

1. Do you know what an SAT super-score is?
2. Chris Young is from HP and he went to Princeton not Yale and he is probably the best pitcher ever to wear Princeton colors and he was a two sports guy - great at the college level in both baseball and basketball.
3. Your last comment is just folly. I'll send you the spreadsheet that calculates Ivy AI indexes if you'd like. A 1200 usually isn't going to work no matter what your friends say.

[kyam11]

Originally Posted by EDS_

1. Do you know what an SAT super-score is?
2. Chris Young is from HP and he went to Princeton not Yale and he is probably the best pitcher ever to wear Princeton colors and he was a two sports guy - great at the college level in both baseball and basketball.
3. Your last comment is just folly. I'll send you the spreadsheet that calculates Ivy AI indexes if you'd like. A 1200 usually isn't going to work no matter what your friends say.

Ah crap. I meant Princeton. He still got a 1300. Still proves the point. Breslow went to Yale.

I stand by what people I know say. Told him if his kid gets 1200 he's in. You can also search on the internet for many parents who said their kids got in with a 1200 (or close to it) on the SAT because of sports. Numerous examples. One guy posted he ran track at Harvard and got a 1290 on his SAT. Said he was on the lower end of scores. Another women said multiple people on her cross country team got from 1300-1400. Men's hockey has much much lower requirements.

Regardless it is still 100% factual that doing well in sports allows you a lower bar for acceptance. You keep responding with points that absolutely prove what I said is true.

I am still trying to figure out what you are trying to prove because all you have done is agree that one can get lower grades and lower scores if they play sports. Arguing specific requirements is impossible.

The lowest AI index for Ivy league acceptance according to an article I read a few minutes ago is 176.

The point is if you get a 3.6 GPA and score a 1420 or so on your SAT and the coach of the BB, baseball, football, hockey, track, soccer, lacrosse, etc team wants you in you are 100% in. Do the exact same and go through admissions process and maybe you get in if you are lucky.

[numbersguy100]

There is a lot of hair splitting here. The reality is that college applicants still adhere to the law of supply and demand. Elite colleges have specific priorities, one of which is often to field Division 1 athletic programs that are successful. That means certain slots must go to athletes who are also academically likely to stay at school (as opposed to failing out). Supply of these candidates is lower than supply of generic, though academically talented, kids with good grades and good test scores but no college-level athletic talent. Hence the potential for admits with academic preparation that would otherwise result in a denial of admission.