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Affirmative action policy has some serious flaws, racism is just cherry on top.
All major systems of doing anything have serious flaws. There is no perfect system. Organizations pick the ones best aligned with their goals who’s flaws they are willing to live with.
Do you think Indians aren't Caucasians? I'd say there is an excellent argument to be made for south Asians being Caucasian. What other race do you think they are?
Caucasian isn't a synonym for "white." White people are Caucasians, but not all Caucasians are white.
There is another excellent argument to be made for all humans being same race but while we are doing race labeling, all South Asians doesn’t belong to a single race.
In ref to the IQ test: IQ test takers are a self-selecting population as well and i think it is of little use in determining the general intelligence of a given population. I think its a good tool tool for determining the general education of a certain group however but not much else.
Personally, i believe any test that can be practiced for or that has results that can go up or down based on how much of the information on the test you are familiar with is not a valid test of innate intelligence. And what the heck does innate intelligence mean anyway? Its a proven fact that brains dont all work the same way. I’m sure many savants and once-in-a-generation artists have failed an IQ test or two.
Einstein, one of the world’s greatest minds would probably have failed a traditional IQ test as a child probably for analyzing the questions half to death. He probably wouldn’t have been a merit scholar and might have overwritten the essay section . Harvard probably wouldn’t have have given him a second thought .
1. Between named IQ tests and IQ proxy tests like the old SAT, the new SAT to a lesser degree, the ASVAB test and a million others researchers have dozens of tests at r=.82 or better relative to IQ. Entities from the CIA to the American Psychological Association state without equivocation that the average American's IQ is right at 98.
1.1. If you think psychologists don't understand IQ across large numbers of people and countries because many have not taken a bonafide test I'd suggest brushing up on your statistics.
2. I'm guessing that Einstein who surmised black-holes and a thousand other things would have crushed modern IQ tests. All the stuff about AE being a bad student is out of context nonsense much of that noise comes from the fact he failed and college entrance exam.................that was written in French and AE didn't speak/read/write French.
There is another excellent argument to be made for all humans being same race but while we are doing race labeling, all South Asians doesn’t belong to a single race.
Then please do me a favor and don't refer to white people as "Caucasian." As far as I'm concerned, at least, you don't have to use an apparently-politically correct term. Just call us "white" and be done with it.
1. Between named IQ tests and IQ proxy tests like the old SAT, the new SAT to a lesser degree, the ASVAB test and a million others researchers have dozens of tests at r=.82 or better relative to IQ. Entities from the CIA to the American Psychological Association state without equivocation that the average American's IQ is right at 98.
1.1. If you think psychologists don't understand IQ across large numbers of people and countries because many have not taken a bonafide test I'd suggest brushing up on your statistics.
2. I'm guessing that Einstein who surmised black-holes and a thousand other things would have crushed modern IQ tests. All the stuff about AE being a bad student is out of context nonsense much of that noise comes from the fact he failed and college entrance exam.................that was written in French and AE didn't speak/read/write French.
I don’t think one needs to brush up on statistics to know that the vast majority of the English speaking world is incredibly insular and assumes theirs is the Gold Standard of everything anywhere. I stand by my assertion that IQ is influenced by education too much to separate the two. Its a chicken or the egg argument, yes, but in my view the two are intrinsically linked. Also, until they can come up with a uniform IQ test offered to significant sample sizes of people from all walks of life, in the language of native proficiency of the test taker, we can relegate the conclusions that people come up with about the general intelligence of other groups globally as gross assumptions and not much else.
I think any psychologist that would make sweeping assumptions based on a small sample of the population should find another line of work. One can estimate the average American IQ because they have been testing American IQ’s (and children) for eternity. To make that same assumption about say, Asians or People of African descent would be based on what exactly? The American sample group if these peoples? Keeping in mind the language barriers and differences in educational systems in those areas not to mention the sheer population sizes, how does one come to those conclusions? And how diverse is the American sample group used to come up with that conclusion anyway?
Western cultures believe that intelligence is some in born thing that one has a pre-determined amount of and that one can only tap into until they hit their capacity.
Eastern cultures ( and really the rest if the world) believe that while there are outliers, for the vast majority of people, knowledge is something you acquire and that acquisition is a skill one can perfect much like any other
... through work and practice. They do not see innate intelligence as anything other than a personality trait.... much like having a short temper. It is for that reason that ‘Asian’ students will always blow other students out of the water academically because they will always outwork them.... no matter what their ‘IQ’. This fact can be seen in the average SAT scores of Asian students in any random high school anywhere in America. Those kids aren’t all ‘smarter’ than all the kids they do better than. They definitely however, work harder and on a more consistent basis than most all of them, at least on academics.
Are there those that are so mentally bereft that there is no amount of practice that could better their scores? Absolutely, but like any outliers, they are in the minority.
Social economic status is still the most influential factor in determining who knows what, not IQ. If one is poor chances are that their high IQ, unless somehow tapped into will benefit them little if at all.
Lastly, Einstein was fluent in French as were most educated Europeans (to this day?). It is highly unlikely that a language barrier was the reason he failed. Failing in a written version of a language test does not always mean a lack of understanding of the language itself especially in people that are multilingual. English speaking kids fail English tests all the time.
Jewish folks have middle eastern ancestry so guess that makes you Asian?
Most, if not all, people of middle eastern descent are Caucasian.
Those questions are asked as what a person ‘culturally identifies’ with. They are not meant as Anthropology questions. But since you ask, those classifications have nothing to do with skin tone or location.
Western cultures believe that intelligence is some in born thing that one has a pre-determined amount of and that one can only tap into until they hit their capacity.
Eastern cultures ( and really the rest if the world) believe that while there are outliers, for the vast majority of people, knowledge is something you acquire and that acquisition is a skill one can perfect much like any other
... through work and practice. They do not see innate intelligence as anything other than a personality trait.... much like having a short temper. It is for that reason that ‘Asian’ students will always blow other students out of the water academically because they will always outwork them.... no matter what their ‘IQ’. This fact can be seen in the average SAT scores of Asian students in any random high school anywhere in America. Those kids aren’t all ‘smarter’ than all the kids they do better than. They definitely however, work harder and on a more consistent basis than most all of them, at least on academics.
My parents definitely had the "knowledge is acquired" mentality. I think that assessment of Western culture is inaccurate. Sure, some people might think like that...but in my experience it isn't widespread.
I don’t think one needs to brush up on statistics to know that the vast majority of the English speaking world is incredibly insular and assumes theirs is the Gold Standard of everything anywhere. I stand by my assertion that IQ is influenced by education too much to separate the two. Its a chicken or the egg argument, yes, but in my view the two are intrinsically linked. Also, until they can come up with a uniform IQ test offered to significant sample sizes of people from all walks of life, in the language of native proficiency of the test taker, we can relegate the conclusions that people come up with about the general intelligence of other groups globally as gross assumptions and not much else.
I think any psychologist that would make sweeping assumptions based on a small sample of the population should find another line of work. One can estimate the average American IQ because they have been testing American IQ’s (and children) for eternity. To make that same assumption about say, Asians or People of African descent would be based on what exactly? The American sample group if these peoples? Keeping in mind the language barriers and differences in educational systems in those areas not to mention the sheer population sizes, how does one come to those conclusions? And how diverse is the American sample group used to come up with that conclusion anyway?
Western cultures believe that intelligence is some in born thing that one has a pre-determined amount of and that one can only tap into until they hit their capacity.
Eastern cultures ( and really the rest if the world) believe that while there are outliers, for the vast majority of people, knowledge is something you acquire and that acquisition is a skill one can perfect much like any other
... through work and practice. They do not see innate intelligence as anything other than a personality trait.... much like having a short temper. It is for that reason that ‘Asian’ students will always blow other students out of the water academically because they will always outwork them.... no matter what their ‘IQ’. This fact can be seen in the average SAT scores of Asian students in any random high school anywhere in America. Those kids aren’t all ‘smarter’ than all the kids they do better than. They definitely however, work harder and on a more consistent basis than most all of them, at least on academics.
Are there those that are so mentally bereft that there is no amount of practice that could better their scores? Absolutely, but like any outliers, they are in the minority.
Social economic status is still the most influential factor in determining who knows what, not IQ. If one is poor chances are that their high IQ, unless somehow tapped into will benefit them little if at all.
Lastly, Einstein was fluent in French as were most educated Europeans (to this day?). It is highly unlikely that a language barrier was the reason he failed. Failing in a written version of a language test does not always mean a lack of understanding of the language itself especially in people that are multilingual. English speaking kids fail English tests all the time.
Where are you coming up with this stuff?
1. Obviously IQ is tightly intertwined with education. I've never heard anyone say otherwise.
2. Inductive reasoning wordless IQ tests for one example have been used around the world for decades - widely since the 1950s.
3. Obfuscate all you want, however, IQ results across most nations and large groups are very well understood and have been for a long time. With respect you don't get decide scientists, researchers, psychologists and educators do and they have. Note that is not to say that IQ testing and results are perfect but they are useful.
4. Your claim that western cultures view IQ as solely reliant on genetics is news to me. Most psychologists seem to believe that "IQ potential" is between 40-60% genetic and 40-60% environment/education etc. You follow on claim about Eastern cultures is challenged by the 100% easily verifiable fact that the Chinese pull high IQ students out of normal educational tracks and place them in higher rigor tracks and they've been doing this for a long time. Other "Eastern" countries employ similar modalities.
5. Regarding your social economic paragraph while your points have some validity what really matters is if we divide the US population into 5 parts each quintile can be described like this.
By income
1. The lowest income quintile has the lowest IQ and lowest educational attainment.
2. The next lowest income quintile has the next lowest IQ and educational attainment.
3. The next lowest income quintile has the next lowest IQ and educational attainment.
4. The next lowest income quintile has the next lowest IQ and educational attainment.
5. The highest income quintile has the highest IQ and the highest educational attainment.
What's more across the quintiles these trend lines run surprisingly straight until very high incomes, the last few percent or so of the top income quintile, which is likely explained at least partially because lots of very smart people go into academia, reporting etc. which on balance don't pay particularly well relative to that cadre.
I'll send you links to federal data backing all of this up if you want them.
6. Einstein was not fluent in French as a kid apparently French was his worst subject in school. All this nonsense about AE being a dumb kid is urban legend.
This is sourced very well FWIIW...... EINSTEIN REVEALED AS BRILLIANT IN YOUTH - NYTimes.com
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. Harvard probably wouldn’t have have given him a second thought .
