PSAT boot camps (public school, health, summer)

[stan4]

Originally Posted by EDS_

The thing is high school kids in India per se wouldn't pass Baylor/UT/Rice/Penn/Harvard/Berkeley etc. O-chem I&II.

.

Yeah. I doubt my cousin's ochem was exactly the same ochem in depth and difficulty.
I was just impressed that they thought enough of the kids to give them ochem.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

But wouldn't scoring a 4 or 5 on AP Chem suffice for the college intro chem?

Yeah. Actually, I suppose it might.
Guess you'd have to ask the school.

[biafra4life]

Originally Posted by unexpected

This has gone off the rails. Brianlife, can I ask you why you are worried about KD/Princeton Review type courses.

I took KD in between the PSAT I took in 10th grade and the PSAT I took in 11th grade. I improved quite dramatically (enough to make the NMS cut-off).

The PSAT you take in 11th grade will represent your daughter's best chance to get college scholarships, so I think it's okay to take it seriously.

On average, I would say that the kids who take KD and take it seriously improve by 100-150 points. If I were in your shoes, I would get your daughter to take a practice test and see what she's capable of. You're not going to turn an 1100 SAT Score into a National Merit Scholar, but if your daughter is scoring 1300-1350+, I would strongly advise for KD/Princeton Review.

I'm very thankful I did KD, I would not have gone to my college without it. You get out what you put in - there are kids who go to KD, then just leave as soon as their parents drop them off (go see a movie at the movies 10, go to the coffee shop, etc.). There were other kids that would just use it as a dating spot (parents wouldn't let them meet somewhere else, but were happy to drop them off at SAT prep).

If you have more specific questions or concerns, you can private message me. I've move on from KD, but I'm back in the Plano-area, and totally look forward to sending my kid there when the time comes. I get the criticism that it's a boot camp, ritualistic, whatever, but I genuinely look back at my memories of KD with fondness and I'm very happy my parents sent me there.

Thanks for the pointers. We are going to have her take it next month as a tenth grader and see where she stands. Then figure out a game plan to ensure that she can do better next year when it counts. I've read about KD but wanted to know what other options were out there and if KD really was worth the cost.

[unexpected]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

But wouldn't scoring a 4 or 5 on AP Chem suffice for the college intro chem?

They way HS chemistry is set up in Texas, it's almost impossible to take O-Chem. The top schools will not let you take AP chem and get out of all your pre-req requirements - they will usually only give you 1 semester.

This is for good reason. O-chem demands good lab skills, and throwing a kid straight into O-Chem just because they can is a recipe for disaster.

[unexpected]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

Thanks for the pointers. We are going to have her take it next month as a tenth grader and see where she stands. Then figure out a game plan to ensure that she can do better next year when it counts. I've read about KD but wanted to know what other options were out there and if KD really was worth the cost.

On the cost perspective, I think it depends on how good she does. If you can even become a national merit semifinalist, places like OU will give you a full ride - which would pay dividends in and of itself.

I also know there was a baby PSAT prep class offered by PISD, if i recall. I think it was a summer program? Honestly, Khan Academy, etc. also do SAT prep. It's not the same, but it'll give her a good sense of the test and also where she stood.

I think KD is good for kids at either end of the bell curve - kids that will struggle to get into college (or are athletes trying to become eligible, etc.) or kids trying to make National Merit, etc.

I would agree that the kids in the middle won't benefit as much from it - they don't have the smarts or the drive to get everything they can out of it.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by unexpected

They way HS chemistry is set up in Texas, it's almost impossible to take O-Chem. The top schools will not let you take AP chem and get out of all your pre-req requirements - they will usually only give you 1 semester.

This is for good reason. O-chem demands good lab skills, and throwing a kid straight into O-Chem just because they can is a recipe for disaster.

They way they do it now wont work obviously. That would require a completely different K-12 system.

One such place sets up their last two years of high schools like the first two years of college are set up here. Meaning, by a kid's last two years of high school, they are taking courses that lead directly to their college major. Its not credit per-se. More like a requirement for admission to a certain program. Yes there are grade requirements. That may mean taking(and passing) Organic chemisty with a certain grade before one is done with high school. That also means that a kid that has not done Organic chem in high school will not be considered for a degree program with that as a pre req because they will not be rehashing that in college.

Harsh, but efficient. Probably a product of a place with too many graduates and not enough spaces in university programs. Frankly i dont see how that would be doable here. Maybe at some trail blazing private school.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

Honestly I don't know why it wouldn't be offered at the high school level to those who are interested. My plan with my daughter is for her to take O Chem at the junior college maybe during the summer of her senior year in high school. If nothing else, she can get a taste of what awaits her in college and maybe be better prepared for it (or on the flip side, let her figure out if this road is one she wants to take). Same with at least one bio course (maybe anatomy or something). Yes, not the most exciting way to spend a high school summer, but it will pay dividends down the road.

Generally speaking, pre-medical track O-chem I and II are simply way-Way-WAY too difficult for high school kids.

If she's going to take an early "pre-medical" class it likely needs to be general chemistry and only later O-chem I.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by unexpected

They way HS chemistry is set up in Texas, it's almost impossible to take O-Chem. The top schools will not let you take AP chem and get out of all your pre-req requirements - they will usually only give you 1 semester.

This is for good reason. O-chem demands good lab skills, and throwing a kid straight into O-Chem just because they can is a recipe for disaster.

Great post.

The top schools won't let medical student wannabes use AP/dual credit chem., O-chem, biology etc. in large part because medical schools and graduate schools usually will not accept those credits.

Getting into medical school is a phenomenal accomplishment even for the very best students. Reducing ones odds by taking less than excellent undergraduate hours is simply a mistake.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

They way they do it now wont work obviously. That would require a completely different K-12 system.

One such place sets up their last two years of high schools like the first two years of college are set up here. Meaning, by a kid's last two years of high school, they are taking courses that lead directly to their college major. Its not credit per-se. More like a requirement for admission to a certain program. Yes there are grade requirements. That may mean taking(and passing) Organic chemisty with a certain grade before one is done with high school. That also means that a kid that has not done Organic chem in high school will not be considered for a degree program with that as a pre req because they will not be rehashing that in college.

Harsh, but efficient. Probably a product of a place with too many graduates and not enough spaces in university programs. Frankly i dont see how that would be doable here. Maybe at some trail blazing private school.

If you are talking about offering say a Rice/UT level O-chem for majors progression to high school kids...........get ready for mass suicides and 90% failure rates.

If you are talking about a washed down o-chem I and II sequence in high school no decent university in the nation would accept the credits. No medical school for certain.

[unexpected]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

They way they do it now wont work obviously. That would require a completely different K-12 system.

One such place sets up their last two years of high schools like the first two years of college are set up here. Meaning, by a kid's last two years of high school, they are taking courses that lead directly to their college major. Its not credit per-se. More like a requirement for admission to a certain program. Yes there are grade requirements. That may mean taking(and passing) Organic chemisty with a certain grade before one is done with high school. That also means that a kid that has not done Organic chem in high school will not be considered for a degree program with that as a pre req because they will not be rehashing that in college.

Harsh, but efficient. Probably a product of a place with too many graduates and not enough spaces in university programs. Frankly i dont see how that would be doable here. Maybe at some trail blazing private school.

I mean, TAMS essentially does this. It's definitely possible to do it - I know TAMS kids who are set on pre-med and graduate college in 2 years with some summer school. Doing this means you transfer your TAMS credit hours directly to a Texas public school and eliminates any out-of-state or private school for your college education. It means going to medical school when your 20 years (way behind your peers). I'm not sure what the benefit of this is, other than being able to graduate medical school when your 24 (and really, when your doing your rotations at 22, do you think the patients you see are very comfortable with that?!) Medical school is an emotional and social journey, in addition to being an academic one.

I also just can't imagine the small subset of people that would say "hey, I'm smart enough to master O-Chem as a 17 year old, but I want to become a doctor as fast as possible, so I'm going to turn down Harvard."