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I found a thread from 3 years ago, but I know the Academy was very new at that point. We are looking at the options with our daughter. She's currently making mostly As in Middle School with all the Honors classes. No idea what her career will be except that it won't be medical. College is the goal and she can get credits prior to high school graduation - that's great.
My daughter originally watched the online videos and wanted to stay in regular school. Then we forced her to go to the Academy presentation and now she is all about that. IB presentation is next week.
I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts who has recent experience with these. My number one concern at the moment is that I have read two people online and heard from one person offline that Academy does a terrible job of preparing your child for college. The offline person told me to absolutely not do the Academy.
Another thing I don't understand is the pros/cons of IB vs Honors/AP. My concern about Honors/AP right now is that my child is drowning in homework in honors middle school as it is.
I graduated from PISD 15 years ago. I did IB for 2 years (the "Pre-IB" program) and then dropped out (I did full AP instead). My sibling graduated with an IB diploma. Having that background here are my 2 cents:
From a workload perspective, doing IB is not more intellectually difficult, but is definitely more work. Going the AP route has an advantage in that if you're struggling with a class (or not that interested in it), you don't have to take it (or can do a regular/honors route). IB is very rigid in its requirements and is basically a set "track".
IB is only at Plano East, so the majority of the program is from East feeder schools - maybe 25% of the program will be from Plano Senior and Plano West.
From a college perspective, IB and AP are looked upon both equally - that is, a student with the exact same GPA from an IB and AP program will be viewed the exact same way - no college is going to give brownie points because your kid "struggled in IB".
I would say that IB courses are more paper based and were set up to be more like college. It's my opinion that IB gives better preparation for colleges (but I have no data to back that up).
If your kid is introverted, IB is more of a "family". My sibling is still friends with his IB peers - they took the same schedule every single day for 4 years - you build really close bonds that way. My AP schedule was more of a "normal" high school schedule and I took classes with a group of 150-200 kids that were taking AP classes (The IB program at that time was 45-60 kids).
IB is more humanities focused - if your kid is awesome at math, it can be hard to take some of the AP math classes (AP Statistics or AP Calculus BC). Some of the IB classes don't "track" well to college credits, like the AP classes do (so if you're interested in your kid going to a state school and graduating early, AP classes may be a better fit.
AP classes also track well with doing a sport. It was impossible for me to do my sport and do IB - the schedules didn't align. Others had to drop out of things like Marching Band to make it work.
From a pure GPA manipulation perspective, going the AP route is better - you can take "interesting" classes like AP Art History to help max out (something you can't do with IB).
Also from a GPA manipulation perspective, if you're coming from the West side, doing the IB program allows you to "escape" the Plano West environment and into the "easier" Plano East ranking system (Which i think exists, but marginally so).
I have no idea about the Academy Program - it was after my time, but I also have not heard great things about it. It seems geared towards average or above average students, but not elite/gifted students. I don't think anyone from the Academy program has gone to an Ivy League school (yet).
We are on the East side through the Murphy feeders. I had that in an earlier version of the post and then accidentally edited it out. Also, I should mention that the teachers said she was a bad fit for PACE (basically too normal personality wise according to them to be called gifted...) and so hasn't been in that. We have no band/sports/cheerleading to deal with. Maybe Choir or Theater, but that's a secondary issue.
Also from a GPA manipulation perspective, if you're coming from the West side, doing the IB program allows you to "escape" the Plano West environment and into the "easier" Plano East ranking system (Which i think exists, but marginally so).
There's actually much discussion in the East Cluster about that ranking system and it being somewhat skewed due to the IB students from Senior and West. Since the OP is already East cluster that may weigh in as well.
OP - are you on MoMs on FB by any chance? There are several ladies who have kids who have gone thru all three. Carrolyn Moebius - former PISD trustee - had a daughter that just graduated from the Academy last year but both her other kids did the East route. PM me if you'd like me to connect you.
There's actually much discussion in the East Cluster about that ranking system and it being somewhat skewed due to the IB students from Senior and West. Since the OP is already East cluster that may weigh in as well.
OP - are you on MoMs on FB by any chance? There are several ladies who have kids who have gone thru all three. Carrolyn Moebius - former PISD trustee - had a daughter that just graduated from the Academy last year but both her other kids did the East route. PM me if you'd like me to connect you.
Plano made a conscious decision to put the IB program at East in order to "strengthen" East and make it on par with the other Plano schools. Geographically, putting it at Plano makes a lot more sense.
IB may strengthen the overall student body profile at Plano East, but it's much easier to cram in more AP classes if you're not doing IB.
The ultimate GPA manipulator is the smart kid at East that does AP - not IB - because the IB kids get beat up grade wise by the courses. AP classes are much more multiple choice based, and IB courses are much more paper/essay driven. You can also stack more credit hours doing AP.
Frankly, I dropped out of IB because I did not have the work ethic for it. I was more interested in chasing girls. My sibling had many 3am-4am nights doing IB. His IB peers also tell me that "IB was worse than college".
Ultimately, you know your kid best. If your kid is a tireless worker, IB could be a good fit. Again, I dropped out after 2 years - the first 2 years look roughly the same as an AP kid, so there's no harm in "trying it out". It does not look bad if you drop out after 10th grade - colleges won't care.
We are on the East side through the Murphy feeders. I had that in an earlier version of the post and then accidentally edited it out. Also, I should mention that the teachers said she was a bad fit for PACE (basically too normal personality wise according to them to be called gifted...) and so hasn't been in that. We have no band/sports/cheerleading to deal with. Maybe Choir or Theater, but that's a secondary issue.
Choir and Theater are the perfect examples of extracurriculars that get cut due to IB. For example, let's say your daughter loves Concert Choir, it may only be available 4th period, which just happens to coincide with some mandatory IB class that's only offered once a day. You end up having to drop choir. I saw this time and time again - it leads to a lot of...resentment.
I don't think PACE has any bearing on IB success - I was a PACE kid since 1st grade (and have always considered myself normal!) and was eager to drop out. Again, what you really want is a kid with a great work ethic and huge work capacity.
You mention the long homework hours - are those your complaints or your daughter's? The best IBers are the ones that can get home and crank out 4-5 hours worth of work without complaining, texting, or watching Big Bang Theory. If your daughter gets by on natural intelligence and just hates doing homework (it's boring, it's easy, or whatever reason), I would say that IB will not be a fun experience (I was in this category!)
IB and full AP load basically have one difference, AP route is more flexible. Both routes offer standard and advance level options but for IB course choice is slim. If you are in PESH feeder, IB would give you a smaller social bubble as general student body demographics are not homogenous. However, you have to take all required classes with general student body. IB isn’t more intense than full AP but structure is rigid and doesn’t give you much time to do extracurriculars. If you don’t like it, you can drop it any time during 9-10 or first month of 11th grade. However, average students can manage to get full diploma with decent efforts, not all IB students are top students.
IB diploma can get some good scholarships but kids who are good enough to get those, get similar scholarships through AP as well. PSAT/SAT/ACT scores are what open doors to most scholarship paths. One of my sons did IB and did very well but didn’t recommend it to his younger brothers as he said there is no extra advantage. If they want global perspective, there are AP courses like world history, European history, human geography, art history, English literature, French, etc to get that. In AP, it’s alacarte so you can eat as much or as little as you have hunger for, you can take take as few as one or as many as 33 AP courses in Plano. A healthy full AP load for high acchievers is is about 10-14, if they want to do extracurriculars, occassionsl socialization and have decent amount of sleep.
If your kid is interested in technical or health professions, STEAM and Health Academies are great options but they are not geared towards top students, they are more for average, mainstream or non-traditional kids. If someone is unhappy, it’s probably because they had wrong expectations, Academy is not for high acchievers looking to do advance STEM courses with similar peers and go to top ten colleges, they are better off staying at their own campuses, taking advance courses and doing all those robotics,Siemens, Intel, AIM, Olympiad type of things colleges love.
If you live near PWSH side, there is no point in adding commute, they have more opportunities for students of every level, right there on their campus.
Same goes for PSH. They won’t miss out on anything career, learning or college admission wise by staying on their own campus.
What’s beautiful is that in Plano ISD, you have access to tons of different opportunities. If there is space and you don’t care about commute, you can even attend schools in any feeder though I would recommend going to your nearest schools.
@unexpected It’s possible to take Art History as an IB student. Some kids do choir and theater and band but it takes a toll on their grades, social life and sleep if they are fully involved.
Imho unless one is aiming for Ivies and other top colleges etc, take it slow,keep balance between easy and hard courses, maintain grades, ace SAT/PSAT/ACT and have a good high school experience. UT, A&M, Baylor, SMU, TCU, UNT etc are good colleges and all take way more kids from Plano ISD than top 10% and other than UT Austin, all give generous merit scholarships to decent students. If it doesn’t work out, go to community college and then transfer to 4year colleges. There are lots of opportunities at Collin College as well.
Last edited by UnfairPark; 11-08-2017 at 06:00 PM..
IB and full AP load basically have one difference, AP route is more flexible. Both routes offer standard and advance level options but for IB course choice is slim. If you are in PESH feeder, IB would give you a smaller social bubble as general student body demographics are not homogenous. However, you have to take all required classes with general student body. IB isn’t more intense than full AP but structure is rigid and doesn’t give you much time to do extracurriculars. If you don’t like it, you can drop it any time during 9-10 or first month of 11th grade. However, average students can manage to get full diploma with decent efforts, not all IB students are top students.
IB diploma can get some good scholarships but kids who are good enough to get those, get similar scholarships through AP as well. PSAT/SAT/ACT scores are what open doors to most scholarship paths. One of my sons did IB and did very well but didn’t recommend it to his younger brothers as he said there is no extra advantage. If they want global perspective, there are AP courses like world history, European history, human geography, art history, English literature, French, etc to get that. In AP, it’s alacarte so you can eat as much or as little as you have hunger for, you can take take as few as one or as many as 33 AP courses in Plano. A healthy full AP load for high acchievers is is about 10-14, if they want to do extracurriculars, occassionsl socialization and have decent amount of sleep.
If your kid is interested in technical or health professions, STEAM and Health Academies are great options but they are not geared towards top students, they are more for average, mainstream or non-traditional kids. If someone is unhappy, it’s probably because they had wrong expectations, Academy is not for high acchievers looking to do advance STEM courses with similar peers and go to top ten colleges, they are better off staying at their own campuses, taking advance courses and doing all those robotics,Siemens, Intel, AIM, Olympiad type of things colleges love.
If you live near PWSH side, there is no point in adding commute, they have more opportunities for students of every level, right there on their campus.
Same goes for PSH. They won’t miss out on anything career, learning or college admission wise by staying on their own campus.
What’s beautiful is that in Plano ISD, you have access to tons of different opportunities. If there is space and you don’t care about commute, you can even attend schools in any feeder though I would recommend going to your nearest schools.
@unexpected It’s possible to take Art History as an IB student. Some kids do choir and theater and band but it takes a toll on their grades, social life and sleep if they are fully involved.
Imho unless one is aiming for Ivies and other top colleges etc, take it slow,keep balance between easy and hard courses, maintain grades, ace SAT/PSAT/ACT and have a good high school experience. UT, A&M, Baylor, SMU, TCU, UNT etc are good colleges and all take way more kids from Plano ISD than top 10% and other than UT Austin, all give generous merit scholarships to decent students. If it doesn’t work out, go to community college and then transfer to 4year colleges. There are lots of opportunities at Collin College as well.
Regarding AP Art History, I'm sure it's possible now - in my year though, it was only offered during 6th period, and the IB kids had the Theory of Knowledge course only offered during that time - so IB kids were not able to take it - it's just another example of how the courses are very rigid because they are few IB kids.
Regarding everything else, I agree with you, except that I don't think just "anyone" can graduate with an IB diploma. It's still an incredible accomplishment, and one to be proud of. Again, it all depends on the kid.
Regarding AP Art History, I'm sure it's possible now - in my year though, it was only offered during 6th period, and the IB kids had the Theory of Knowledge course only offered during that time - so IB kids were not able to take it - it's just another example of how the courses are very rigid because they are few IB kids.
Regarding everything else, I agree with you, except that I don't think just "anyone" can graduate with an IB diploma. It's still an incredible accomplishment, and one to be proud of. Again, it all depends on the kid.
You are right but anyone doesnt take IB, we are talking about rather selective group. I should rephrase it as you don’t have to be top 1-2% student, if any disciplined top quarter student picks and chooses high level and standard level courses wisely and put in maximum effort and time, he can get a diploma though low grades in difficult courses can kill your unweighted GPA.
Last edited by UnfairPark; 11-09-2017 at 07:16 AM..
You might check with Plano East regarding extra-curriculars and required courses. My daughter is in the IB program at another school (Woodrow Wilson) and the IB-required classes do not conflict with extra-curriculars like Choir, athletics,etc.
As the program has grown, they are able to offer more sections of the classes so the kids can do more things. (FWIW, my daughter dropped Athletics and her GPA rose. She had 100 in Athletics but it was her only un-weighted class. You might think about that if GPA is important to you and your child. It wasn't for us but just a nice side-effect)
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