Dallas officer involved in fatal shooting (Van: appointed, lawyers, castle)

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by jgn2013

Excellent point.

We acknowledge that cops should be respected and shown some degree of deference when we interact with them, yet we don't hold them to a higher standard based on superior training.

Basically, it's OK for them to react without consciousness...but it's not OK for us to do the same. That line of thought never made any sense to me. A police officer should show more restraint, awareness and proper judgement than an average citizen.

She didn't take the time to assess the situation. Jean could have been armed and killed her, thinking she was an intruder. She killed him and he was unarmed, but what she did was quite dangerous when you think about it. Guyger could easily take a step back outside the door and attempt to communicate with Mr. Jean until she got a handle on the situation. She didn't talk and likely gave little if any warning...regardless of what she said in her statement. She shot him reflexively and hoped everything would work itself out.

Or she could have taken a step back and called for help.

All the home safety training I have had teaches you to get to a safe place and avoid a confrontation if you can.

I think there is much more to come out on this. What we are getting now is the officer's version of events.But I rather think that when the truth finally comes out - if it ever does - that things will be rather more convoluted.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Uconndoitt

No, but if I'm understanding you correctly, you are implying officers have a right to fear people they pull over/encounter, just like people fear officers... which is absolutely wrong.

No, I'm saying officers have to be PREPARED to react quickly... which is absolutely correct.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

Failure to comply while approaching an officer is a dark room has a very high probability of getting you shot.

Fact of life. The officer is wrong in this case. But you are still shot.

Look at it from his point of view, if you're able.


You're in your dark apartment. It's dark outside. The hallway is illuminated. There's a figure standing in your doorway. The figure is backlit. You have no idea who this person is. You can't tell he/she is wearing a cop uniform...can't see facial features or skin color.


Would you comply? I'd advance on them with the gun I already had in my hand. Had Jean defended himself against this intruder, you can bet your ass he'd be looking at a capital murder charge instead of manslaughter.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Stevehanrahan41

One theory I haven’t heard anyone come up with is this:

What if she was on her cell phone the whole time up to when she entered the apartment. How many times have we been so engrossed in our phones that we aren’t paying ANY attention to our surroundings. Maybe she was just on her phone and walked up to the wrong door as she thought she was already on the right floor, and it escalated from there?

And before the looneys start calling me a bigot and whatnot, I just want to know the truth In this tragic incident like everyone else

Don't assume that we the public knows everything that the police know, or ever will until the final report or trial. This will be a quite easy thing to determine in an investigation.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by jbb303

It's been pretty widely reported in the media that there was a blood draw taken the night of the shooting.

It's absurd to believe otherwise.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Look at it from his point of view, if you're able.


You're in your dark apartment. It's dark outside. The hallway is illuminated. There's a figure standing in your doorway. The figure is backlit. You have no idea who this person is. You can't tell he/she is wearing a cop uniform...can't see facial features or skin color.


Would you comply? I'd advance on them with the gun I already had in my hand. Had Jean defended himself against this intruder, you can bet your ass he'd be looking at a capital murder charge instead of manslaughter.

That's probably correct.

And I'll tell you for certain if it happened like that at my house almost certainly the officer or me would be dead.

[san11]

Whether it was intentional or not, Civilian got shot by police in his own apartment.
That should be sentenced as Life long prison.
With job responsibility comes. The badge gave her power, but it also comes with responsibility.
This is abuse of power and totally irresponsible.

[Yenisei]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

This
All the debate about whether he complied with her commands are null and void
Im not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure a police officer cannot enter your home in the first place to give commands unless he/she has a warrant, or is responding to a complaint or 911 call. The lady was doing none of the above plus she was off duty. He had every right to not comply... one could technically argue he had the right to shoot her for unlawfully entering his home without invitation.
If she gets off lightly then that means we now live in a police state (excuse the pun). When the police can enter your home and murder you at will then that is not a democracy.

This. And even if she had identified herself as a police officer once in the apartment, what person in their right mind, shocked that someone armed was suddenly in their (possibly dark) home, would simply comply mindlessly without at least some hesitation or arguing? That cannot simply be grounds to shoot someone in their own home, where they are supposed to be and the cop isn't.



There have to be better ways for an experienced cop to handle someone she thinks is a burglar than shooting them when she isn't in immediate danger of bodily harm. If what she did would have been acceptable if she were on duty, than someone needs to review police protocols and practices, much less for an off-duty cop.

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by Yenisei

This. And even if she had identified herself as a police officer once in the apartment, what person in their right mind, shocked that someone armed was suddenly in their (possibly dark) home, would simply comply mindlessly without at least some hesitation or arguing? That cannot simply be grounds to shoot someone in their own home, where they are supposed to be and the cop isn't.



There have to be better ways for an experienced cop to handle someone she thinks is a burglar than shooting them when she isn't in immediate danger of bodily harm. If what she did would have been acceptable if she were on duty, than someone needs to review police protocols and practices, much less for an off-duty cop.

She is beyond any doubt responsible for the death. But again it will run into big "beyond a reasonable doubt" problems criminally. She is very likely to testify that he did not comply with her directives and she feared for her life leading to shooting him. And it may well be true.

[Jaggy001]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

She is beyond any doubt responsible for the death. But again it will run into big "beyond a reasonable doubt" problems criminally. She is very likely to testify that he did not comply with her directives and she feared for her life leading to shooting him. And it may well be true.

The totality of her behavior will be taken into account. Why did she park on the wrong level? Why did she attempt to enter - or actually entered - the wrong apartment? Why did she not retreat and call for backup/help when realizing there was someone in the apartment given that she was at the door? How far was Jean from her when he was shot (ballistics evidence) and did he constitute an immediate threat? Did she have any drugs/alcohol in her system?

In a Manslaughter charge the fact that it may have been an accident is not relevant. It is the nature of the behavior leading up to the accident and whether that behavior recklessly caused the death of another person.

This case will be under a lot of scrutiny. It is not something that can easily be swept under the carpet. There are many constituencies watching what happens here and, I suspect, both the police and the judicial authorities are going to fall over themselves to be impartial and to be seen to be impartial. In my opinion this cop is going down. It is just a question as to how long.