The Disaster That is HB 2439...Concerns and Consequences (Dallas: home, transfer)

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

What amount of newer homes are solid brick vs brick veneer? All the newer construction I've seen has been veneer. Maybe the higher end homes and/or homes built 30+ years ago were all brick but brick veneer is no different than vinyl. Also keep in mind that are different grades of vinyl siding, from the cheap to the high end.

Not exactly. Brick is impact resistant, water resistant, and fire resistant especially in comparison to vinyl. Brick is also an all natural material from abundant supplies, and is often recycled and reused.

[wheelsup]

Believe it or not we get hail here in NC too...never heard or seen vinyl crack under hail. Water resistant? I'm not sure you quite understand what vinyl is...it's plastic...there couldn't be anything more "resistant" to water than plastic...

Fire resistant...unless you have a fire on your lawn it's a nonevent, if the fire is inside your house is already burning down.

Also the veneers/vinyl allow for the construction of homes that are much more energy efficient.

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Believe it or not we get hail here in NC too...never heard or seen vinyl crack under hail. Water resistant? I'm not sure you quite understand what vinyl is...it's plastic...there couldn't be anything more "resistant" to water than plastic...

Fire resistant...unless you have a fire on your lawn it's a nonevent, if the fire is inside your house is already burning down.

Also the veneers/vinyl allow for the construction of homes that are much more energy efficient.

One of our homes in NC had a brick foundation with white vinyl siding. It was a very pretty colonial. Vinyl or any siding can give a very pretty look.

But while vinyl or "plastic" as you so conveniently point out may be "waterproof", you are putting pieces of that plastic on your home. Water can get behind it and then often cannot get back out, leading to mold and mildew. Vinyl can also dent.

All types of siding can warp, crack, and vinyl can even melt. There has been a recent host of problems with vinyl melting from the glare off of windows.

"Arlene Taraschi, a homeowner in Delanco, New Jersey, described her melted siding in a letter to a Q-and-A column in the Philadelphia Inquirer: “Two years ago, my husband and I purchased a new, Pulte-built home in South Jersey. After a few months we noticed the vinyl siding on one side of the house seemed to be dented in a diagonal pattern. The siding contractor replaced the siding on the entire side of the house. This was done last January, and by February the denting pattern began again. We were told at this time that it was because of the reflection of the sun’s rays from our neighbor’s house. Pulte has termed this melting of the siding ‘thermal distortion,’ and refuses to correct the problem.”

As Taraschi’s case makes clear, these cases aren’t just public relations nightmares — they’re legal nightmares. Arlene’s husband, Carl Taraschi, told me, “I’ve sued Pulte, the siding installer, and the siding manufacturer.”

Since 2007, when I first reported on cases of siding melted by window reflections, I’ve collected homeowner reports of the phenomenon from 16 states (Connecticut, Georgia, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Washington).

Danny Winters works for Cimarron Homes, a builder in Durham, North Carolina. Winters told me, “I think it is a common problem. We are looking for solutions. At one of our houses, the reflection hits the home next door. These are south or southwest facing windows. Whenever I’ve seen the problem, without fail, the melted siding makes a diagonal pattern, starting high and coming across in a downward motion. If you look in communities with a lot of vinyl siding, with houses on relatively small lots, you’ll see that pattern.”

https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...t-vinyl-siding

That does not happen with brick.

As to fire resistance, if brick takes an hour I catch on fire and vinyl takes 8 minutes, I'll take the hour as it gives everyone a greater chance of getting out. Also in a tornado prone area, which TX is but NC isn't, I'll take brick over siding every day.

[Katana49]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

Not exactly. Brick is impact resistant, water resistant, and fire resistant especially in comparison to vinyl. Brick is also an all natural material from abundant supplies, and is often recycled and reused.

Brick is porous, it is not water resistant. Brick absorbs water, which is why a moisture barrier must go between brick and the house framing. It is more fire resistant than vinyl though.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Believe it or not we get hail here in NC too...never heard or seen vinyl crack under hail. Water resistant? I'm not sure you quite understand what vinyl is...it's plastic...there couldn't be anything more "resistant" to water than plastic...

Fire resistant...unless you have a fire on your lawn it's a nonevent, if the fire is inside your house is already burning down.

Also the veneers/vinyl allow for the construction of homes that are much more energy efficient.

Hail that is the size of softballs will pulverize vinyl easier than brick. It is more water resistant than brick. It certainly isn't more fire resistant, and the gasses put off by burning vinyl are deadly. Even regular outgassing can have negative effects on the occupants of a home.


Your last point makes no sense whatsoever and is not true. Brick alone vs vinyl siding, brick is more energy efficient. BOTH can be used in tandem with whatever energy efficient measures can be used in walls.

[Sunbather]

imo, standard vinyl siding is ugly and does not hold up nearly as well as most of the other options available as alternatives. There are also lots of performance issues besides the maintenance issues.

I have had vinyl in the past and it gets tired looking pretty quick. The original brick on my 1949 modern home is still in excellent condition.

The gables on this home were changed from wood to vinyl at some point in the 90s I think. I cannot wait to replace that vinyl with a different material in the next few years.

[wheelsup]

Homes are wrapped so water behind vinyl is a non issue...my home is 15 years old, all the homes in my neighborhood are vinyl (and lower end at that)...mold is a nonissue, not even worth talking about.

As for the fire issue you missed the point, if the brick OR vinyl is on fire either you have a fire outside on your lawn....or it's inside and everything inside will burn...again a stupid reason to have brick or brick veneer...if you are that concerned you should build your home out of concrete block.

Either way all of this is not what this bill is about...guess what you can still build with brick, THEY DID NOT OUTLAW BRICK, the world is not ending...

Maybe now the homes will at least look semi attractive vs what is built in those planned developments.

[EcoDeb]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

What amount of newer homes are solid brick vs brick veneer? All the newer construction I've seen has been veneer. Maybe the higher end homes and/or homes built 30+ years ago were all brick but brick veneer is no different than vinyl. Also keep in mind that are different grades of vinyl siding, from the cheap to the high end.

Brick veneer is no different than vinyl???? PLEASE!!!!!

[EcoDeb]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Believe it or not we get hail here in NC too...never heard or seen vinyl crack under hail. Water resistant? I'm not sure you quite understand what vinyl is...it's plastic...there couldn't be anything more "resistant" to water than plastic...

Fire resistant...unless you have a fire on your lawn it's a nonevent, if the fire is inside your house is already burning down.

Also the veneers/vinyl allow for the construction of homes that are much more energy efficient.

How does vinyl allow a home to be more energy efficient? This I have to hear.

[EcoDeb]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

One of our homes in NC had a brick foundation with white vinyl siding. It was a very pretty colonial. Vinyl or any siding can give a very pretty look.

But while vinyl or "plastic" as you so conveniently point out may be "waterproof", you are putting pieces of that plastic on your home. Water can get behind it and then often cannot get back out, leading to mold and mildew. Vinyl can also dent.

All types of siding can warp, crack, and vinyl can even melt. There has been a recent host of problems with vinyl melting from the glare off of windows.

"Arlene Taraschi, a homeowner in Delanco, New Jersey, described her melted siding in a letter to a Q-and-A column in the Philadelphia Inquirer: “Two years ago, my husband and I purchased a new, Pulte-built home in South Jersey. After a few months we noticed the vinyl siding on one side of the house seemed to be dented in a diagonal pattern. The siding contractor replaced the siding on the entire side of the house. This was done last January, and by February the denting pattern began again. We were told at this time that it was because of the reflection of the sun’s rays from our neighbor’s house. Pulte has termed this melting of the siding ‘thermal distortion,’ and refuses to correct the problem.”

As Taraschi’s case makes clear, these cases aren’t just public relations nightmares — they’re legal nightmares. Arlene’s husband, Carl Taraschi, told me, “I’ve sued Pulte, the siding installer, and the siding manufacturer.”

Since 2007, when I first reported on cases of siding melted by window reflections, I’ve collected homeowner reports of the phenomenon from 16 states (Connecticut, Georgia, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Washington).

Danny Winters works for Cimarron Homes, a builder in Durham, North Carolina. Winters told me, “I think it is a common problem. We are looking for solutions. At one of our houses, the reflection hits the home next door. These are south or southwest facing windows. Whenever I’ve seen the problem, without fail, the melted siding makes a diagonal pattern, starting high and coming across in a downward motion. If you look in communities with a lot of vinyl siding, with houses on relatively small lots, you’ll see that pattern.”

https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...t-vinyl-siding

That does not happen with brick.

As to fire resistance, if brick takes an hour I catch on fire and vinyl takes 8 minutes, I'll take the hour as it gives everyone a greater chance of getting out. Also in a tornado prone area, which TX is but NC isn't, I'll take brick over siding every day.

Brick homes get insurance discounts too!

[Sunbather]

Originally Posted by EcoDeb

How does vinyl allow a home to be more energy efficient? This I have to hear.

it doesn't. it was touted that was as a selling point early on, but it's mostly been debunked over the years by building scientists and empirical data. It's not necessarily much worse, but it's not measurably better either. Personally, in a hot climate like ours, I'll take the extra building thermal mass of the brick. There are a lot of other factors in the construction that have a significantly larger impact on the energy efficiency of the home anyway.

I should reiterate that I don't think vinyl siding is horrible. It's fine. I don't think it should be banned as it's a choice. But there are several things I do not like about it, starting with the cheap look. Just not for me.