Income Needed for Family of 4 to Live Comfortably in Dallas (Plano: buying a house, buying)

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by synchronicity

Well, not quite 1 in 10 with "investable assets" over a million. I've seen a number of studies, and the closest I've seen to 1 in 10 is net worth "NIPR" (not including primary residence, basically excluding home equity). that value would include other (rental or commercial) real estate, business interests (partnership/LLC/sole proprietorship) and whatnot, as well as publicly traded securities and bank account balances and whatever. And even there, last I saw that was a shade under 10% (around 9%, I think). So including home equity it probably would be about 1 in 10, give or take.

That said, certainly a "millionaire" today is not nearly the same as a millionaire back in 1996 when the book came out (but having a million in net worth is definitely better than not having a million in net worth).

As a random tangent, there's an approximate rule of 5's - a million net worth is about upper 10%, 5 million net worth is about upper 1%, and 25 million net worth is about upper 0.1%. I think this even holds true for one level above that - that $125 million is about 0.01%, and beyond that I really don't care.

You are correct, I was just dumbing it down and writing it quickly.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Just because DFW housing is like 14% overvalued does mean that the definition of upper middle class suddenly goes up 50%-100%

Just saying.

Upper Middle Class for a family of 4 is somewhere between 100-120K regardless of what level yall feel "Comfortable" at.

Baring medical debt, a crazy amount of student loans or something like that, if you feel stretched on that amount of money you are spending too much, simple as that.

I was looking at houses in Kings Highway that in 2012 were 200k and are now around 430k. Thats just how it goes. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/9...26712638_zpid/

Does this mean the middle class has gone from 200k homes to 430K? Of course not. The neighborhood has cycled up.

Just to be clear, this thread isn't so much about "what is an upper middle class income" as defined by medians or percentiles or any of that, it is about what income is needed to comfortably live an upper-middle class lifestyle in DFW RIGHT NOW - if houses 7 years ago were $200k and are now $430k then by default someone wanting to purchase a home and live an "upper middle class" lifestyle in DFW is going to need more income than what was needed 7 years ago in order to cover the significantly higher monthly housing expenses.

[mastershake575]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Just to be clear, this thread isn't so much about "what is an upper middle class income" as defined by medians or percentiles or any of that, it is about what income is needed to comfortably live an upper-middle class lifestyle in DFW RIGHT NOW - if houses 7 years ago were $200k and are now $430k then by default someone wanting to purchase a home and live an "upper middle class" lifestyle in DFW is going to need more income than what was needed 7 years ago in order to cover the significantly higher monthly housing expenses.

Yes and No. Most people have been saying 120-150k even though 100-120k might be percentile in the range he stated for kinda that reason (prices have gone up but over-valudation is still apparant)

If you need significantly more than 120-150k then your probably trying to live in an area that "was" upper middle-class but now is majority upper class earners. If the household income of your neighbhorhood magically doubles in 7 years then that's not "the new upper-middle class", your now surrounded by upper class earners (you can't just say "uhhh 7 years passed this is the new upper-middle lifestyle").

It goes both ways. You have to add reasonable value but you can't add artifical value (too much artificial value and like i said, your probably trying to live in an area that's NOW upper-class)

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Just to be clear, this thread isn't so much about "what is an upper middle class income" as defined by medians or percentiles or any of that, it is about what income is needed to comfortably live an upper-middle class lifestyle in DFW RIGHT NOW - if houses 7 years ago were $200k and are now $430k then by default someone wanting to purchase a home and live an "upper middle class" lifestyle in DFW is going to need more income than what was needed 7 years ago in order to cover the significantly higher monthly housing expenses.

Yeah, just because particular neighborhoods cycled up doesn't change the definition of upper middle class lifestyle. The lifestyle isn't tied to a particular couple neighborhoods.

Neighborhoods in Oak Cliff have jumped from working class to Uppermiddle to Upperclass in the last 10 years. That doesn't mean that being working class now means you have to own a home worth half a million.....

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by mastershake575

Yes and No. Most people have been saying 120-150k even though 100-120k might be percentile in the range he stated for kinda that reason (prices have gone up but over-valudation is still apparant)

If you need significantly more than 120-150k then your probably trying to live in an area that "was" upper middle-class but now is majority upper class earners. If the household income of your neighbhorhood magically doubles in 7 years then that's not "the new upper-middle class", your now surrounded by upper class earners (you can't just say "uhhh 7 years passed this is the new upper-middle lifestyle").

It goes both ways. You have to add reasonable value but you can't add artifical value (too much artificial value and like i said, your probably trying to live in an area that's NOW upper-class)

Exactly.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Yeah, just because particular neighborhoods cycled up doesn't change the definition of upper middle class lifestyle. The lifestyle isn't tied to a particular couple neighborhoods.

Neighborhoods in Oak Cliff have jumped from working class to Uppermiddle to Upperclass in the last 10 years. That doesn't mean that being working class now means you have to own a home worth half a million.....

The lifestyle is tied to YOUR ANNUAL EXPENSES which are significantly higher when a home cost $400k that used to cost $200k.

I don't understand why people keep bringing up the past, the past has nothing to do with the basic question of "How much income do you need right now to life a comfortable upper-middle class lifestyle in DFW?" It is about existing costs RIGHT NOW.

You wouldn't say an upper-middle class income is $120k in San Francisco because a home in San Francisco costs over $1M, your annual expenses are way higher if you have to buy a $1M home, thus $120k income is not going to cut the mustard in an area where homes costs over $1M. It is the same principle here, if homes now cost $400k then you need more income to cover that expense and still have all the other luxuries associated with upper-middle class living.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by mastershake575

Yes and No. Most people have been saying 120-150k even though 100-120k might be percentile in the range he stated for kinda that reason (prices have gone up but over-valudation is still apparant)

If you need significantly more than 120-150k then your probably trying to live in an area that "was" upper middle-class but now is majority upper class earners. If the household income of your neighbhorhood magically doubles in 7 years then that's not "the new upper-middle class", your now surrounded by upper class earners (you can't just say "uhhh 7 years passed this is the new upper-middle lifestyle").

It goes both ways. You have to add reasonable value but you can't add artifical value (too much artificial value and like i said, your probably trying to live in an area that's NOW upper-class)

The question has absolutely nothing to do with the income or class characteristics of certain neighborhoods, it is a very simple question, HOW MUCH INCOME IS NEEDED TO COVER YOUR ANNUAL EXPENSES AT CURRENT HOUSE PRICES + LIVE COMFORTABLY + INCREASE SAVINGS aka live an upper-middle class lifestyle; the descriptor of upper-middle class is just a generic way of classifying the parameters given in the original question (own a home, take vacations, etc. etc.)

[mastershake575]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

The question has absolutely nothing to do with the income or class characteristics of certain neighborhoods

Given the context of the post (comfterable lifestyle within a 1 hour commute of Dallas), yes neighborhoods characteristics and income is gonna be gigantic factors.

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

it is a very simple question

No it's a very difficult question with many factors that can literally have 3 different answers in just a 2 mile span........ (if it was a simple question you would of done basic googling on home prices/bills and gotten your answer, you didn't wonder why )

If your idea of the answer you wanted was "simple" then you would of found the answer yourself in less than a day. Instead all you did was argue with people who live in these area's because it doesn't fit your narrative (if the narrative is already in your head and you already know everything then you should probably stop acting like your trying to get help and just move on)

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

live an upper-middle class lifestyle; the descriptor of upper-middle class is just a generic way of classifying the parameters given in the original question (own a home, take vacations, etc. etc.)

That's not how it works in DFW. That's not only too vague of a question but it's area specific (120k could fit everything you said in East Richarson but wouldn't even get you an apartment in other areas).

For most area's either around Dallas or North of it 120k-150k is gonna be the budget your looking for. If you need significantly more than that to get into a specific area then your leaning more towards an upper class budget/area (really nothing else needs to be said from this point on).

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by mastershake575

Given the context of the post (comfterable lifestyle within a 1 hour commute of Dallas), yes neighborhoods characteristics and income is gonna be gigantic factors.

But that only matters in the context of RIGHT NOW, not 7 years ago or historically.

The historical income or class or rise and fall of any particular neighborhood is irrelevant for answering the question at hand (the one exception is if you are using the historical trend to forecast into the future: e.g. is this neighborhood declining.

The only thing that matters is: Current house price in neighborhoods with nice homes and good schools, and how much money is left over after paying the PITI mortgage on that house, and is it enough money left over to live what one might call "upper-middle class" (i.e. strong positive monthly cash flow, strong retirement savings, vacations, kids activities, etc.).

This thread isn't an argument about "what defines an upper-middle class income/neighborhood", at least not in my mind, it's basically a simple math equation as far as I am concerned.

[mastershake575]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

The only thing that matters is: Current house price in neighborhoods with nice homes and good schools, and how much money is left over after paying the PITI mortgage on that house, and is it enough money left over to live what one might call "upper-middle class" (i.e. strong positive monthly cash flow, strong retirement savings, vacations, kids activities, etc.).

This question has literally be answered by 6 different users (most of which live in the area's with good schools ) and your still not happy with the answers they gave

Nice homes with good extra circular activities/cash flow in popular top 5% feeder highschools (Allen, Boyd, Wylie High, Coppell, Pearce, Plano Senior, Richardson) 120-150k is what your looking for