Income Needed for Family of 4 to Live Comfortably in Dallas (Howe: prices, housing)

[LocalPlanner]

One reason I chose to not work in California (and won't take an assignment there now) is because of the prevalence of the twisted philosophy that single family homeowners should have the privilege of distorting government land use policy to enforce their personal preferences on other landowners with whom they have zero connection other than sharing the same community or school zone. And apparently, many think that privilege should be in direct proportion to the price they paid for their home (that or its current market value). Anyone who believes that, by definition, believes in "big, intrusive government" because it's hard to get bigger or more intrusive than that.

It's dismaying to see this philosophy, which as I noted, was originally born from anti-developer leftism just a few decades ago, spreading to Texas. How shameful.

[Xalistiq]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

One reason I chose to not work in California (and won't take an assignment there now) is because of the prevalence of the twisted philosophy that single family homeowners should have the privilege of distorting government land use policy to enforce their personal preferences on other landowners with whom they have zero connection other than sharing the same community or school zone. And apparently, many think that privilege should be in direct proportion to the price they paid for their home (that or its current market value). Anyone who believes that, by definition, believes in "big, intrusive government" because it's hard to get bigger or more intrusive than that.

It's dismaying to see this philosophy, which as I noted, was originally born from anti-developer leftism just a few decades ago, spreading to Texas. How shameful.

It’s “dismaying” that people don’t want their neighborhoods to become poorer with worsening schools and higher crime?

I’m sorry but have you ever had the “privilege” to live amongst the kind of demographic “diversity” that is a guaranteed byproduct of your pro-density ideology? And no, I’m not referring to those middle class, or young adults just starting their careers who rent and who largely are the tenants who occupy apartments when they are new. I’m referring to the demographic that moves into those aging apartments once they’ve deteriorated past their usable lifespan, and are forced to cut rental rates, and offer move-in specials like “two months free”. This is the inevitable life cycle of all apartments.

It is simply not possible for apartments to exist in neighborhoods that are primarily or mostly single family residential, and that have a high standard of living and highly performing public schools, to maintain those high standards once apartments are built en masse and the people who rent them begin moving into those communities in increasing numbers over time.

If you really want to go down this rabbit hole, I have a ton of evidence to support my position and am more than happy to engage.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by Xalistiq

It’s “dismaying” that people don’t want their neighborhoods to become poorer with worsening schools and higher crime?

I’m sorry but have you ever had the “privilege” to live amongst the kind of demographic “diversity” that is a guaranteed byproduct of your pro-density ideology? And no, I’m not referring to those middle class, or young adults just starting their careers who rent and who largely are the tenants who occupy apartments when they are new. I’m referring to the demographic that moves into those aging apartments once they’ve deteriorated past their usable lifespan, and are forced to cut rental rates, and offer move-in specials like “two months free”. This is the inevitable life cycle of all apartments.

It is simply not possible for apartments to exist in neighborhoods that are primarily or mostly single family residential, and that have a high standard of living and highly performing public schools, to maintain those high standards once apartments are built en masse and the people who rent them begin moving into those communities in increasing numbers over time.

If you really want to go down this rabbit hole, I have a ton of evidence to support my position and am more than happy to engage.

I'm not "pro density." I am "density neutral" when it comes to government policy. I am "pro market." I am also very picky about where government should be allowed to intervene and distort markets. Obviously you and a number of others in this forum aren't. School zone demographics are simply not a matter for local government land use regulation.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

...School zone demographics are simply not a matter for local government land use regulation.

Why not?

You keep making these statements like they're laws of physics or something.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I'm not "pro density." I am "density neutral" when it comes to government policy. I am "pro market." I am also very picky about where government should be allowed to intervene and distort markets. Obviously you and a number of others in this forum aren't. School zone demographics are simply not a matter for local government land use regulation.

You seem to be very narrow minded. Your way or the highway. Rent - that is your decision.

Home ownership has always been part of the American Dream be it first generation immigrants or long established citizens. It is something they strive for. It may not always be the pretty Gingerbread House with a picket fence but it is their little piece of freedom. That is where they grow roots, get involved with the community, spend their money. Are part of it. Yes, it costs money, sometimes sweat (depending on your lot size) and pain when you have to move for whatever reason.
School zones may not be important to you personally. They are to parents who care about their childrens education and future.

[Xalistiq]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

Why not?

You keep making these statements like they're laws of physics or something.

Self-righteousness is a feature, not a bug, of those who most often share his views. When they receive pushback or criticism on their beliefs, they become dismayed and angry, and use words like “racist” and “classist”, as a way to dehumanize and silence those with opposing viewpoints.

The whole thing has reached peak ridiculousness when you have white progressives fighting a black conservative and calling the latter racist for opposing the demographic “diversity” and decline that is an eventuality of unchecked apartment building in suburban neighborhoods.

[Threestep2]

Can we go back to the question of this thread please?

There is no number to offer. It all depends on a family's circumstances. It starts with housing from mortage/paid/insurance/utilites and not to forget taxes. then comes needs, wants and basics. Can a family of four eat on $100/week? Absolutely. Does this family of four want to eat on $100/eek? Probably not. Then comes education and all the extra that comes with it. Does the budget include maintenance ffor house/vehicles? Is it Supercuts or a salon for hair cuts? Is it Kohl's or Macy's for clothes? You can spin this into a lot of yarn.

[heavymind]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

Single family houses are the most expensive form of housing in the US and the most sought after. It should be surprising to anyone that people who have worked and saved and spent most of their life's savings and contracted for 30 years of payments, to get into a SFH, should then wish to protect their investment and their lifestyle. Take a subdivision of SFH mostly owner-occupied; tear half down and make fourplex rentals; and you will have a COMPLETELY different, and inferior, standard of living.

Agreed on all points, but...my original comment was bypassed.

Do you have children? If not, nearly everyone else does. Where are they supposed to live? The more people we choose to pack onto the planet, the more condensed things are going to get - in the form of apartment buildings and high-density housing. If you think you can buy a house or property and expect it to stay the same forever just because you saved up for it, you'd be incorrect. If you truly want to protect your investment and lifestyle, go buy an uninhabited island and you will have your wish.

I remember sitting at a breakfast diner a few years ago, there was a table of older men nearby doing the usual complaining about life. One of them ranted about how he had fled California because it was too crowded and moved here to escape all of that madness, then went on to talk about his four adult sons and his grandchildren, with great pride.

People are bringing this on themselves, fueling human overpopulation and then complaining when "affordable" housing is built within sight or earshot of their precious property.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by Threestep2

You seem to be very narrow minded. Your way or the highway. Rent - that is your decision.

Home ownership has always been part of the American Dream be it first generation immigrants or long established citizens. It is something they strive for. It may not always be the pretty Gingerbread House with a picket fence but it is their little piece of freedom. That is where they grow roots, get involved with the community, spend their money. Are part of it. Yes, it costs money, sometimes sweat (depending on your lot size) and pain when you have to move for whatever reason.
School zones may not be important to you personally. They are to parents who care about their childrens education and future.

It's great to care about schools. That does not justify at all a community saying, "We can't allow a new subdivision of 40-foot lots because the people living in those 'entry-level' homes will bring down our school test scores," or similar positions (especially anything to do with keeping out renters).

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

It's great to care about schools. That does not justify at all a community saying, "We can't allow a new subdivision of 40-foot lots because the people living in those 'entry-level' homes will bring down our school test scores," or similar positions (especially anything to do with keeping out renters).

Did you ever buy and improved a nice home in a small subdivision of similar ones to find yourself the gateway to a 1200 unit starter home project? As you are a se!f proclaimed rented - how do you understand the dynamics besides on paper.
Yes, children are impacted by famIly dynamics.