Coronavirus in DFW - News & Discussion (Howe, Italy: American, compare)

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

Orange man bad, right?

Your last few posts consistently bash Republicans, bash Trump voters, bash evangelical Christians, and over generalize the situation. I am sorry that your family business is suffering; however, this is not 100% Trump's fault. This is not 100% anybody's fault. I don't believe Hillary would have done better. She would have done some things differently, but we will never know how it would have been better or worse.

Also Goya has nothing to do with this topic.

And none of this is supposed to be in this thread, but here we are.

Some of the above posts are detached and from a poster who has always been the opposite of that.

I guess some simply have to blame someone for the virus and collateral impacts.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Some of the above posts are detached and from a poster who has always been the opposite of that.

I guess some simply have to blame someone for the virus and collateral impacts.

Serious question: If the leaders of every other country who got Covid under control got kudos for their efforts (Germany, New Zealand, South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Switzerland), then why would we not place blame on leaders who did not employ the same tactics and allowed the virus to spiral out of control in other countries?

Leaders are always held accountable for their mistakes and administrative failures (Hurricane Katrina, Vietnam, the AIDS crisis, etc). Why would this get a pass?

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

I know you voted for him and you probably will again. This isn’t about my business. At all. What none of you know on here is that I literally have voted almost straight ticket Republican for the last 20 years until 2016. I wasn’t a Hillary fan but I punched my ballot for her and I am 110% confident she would have done 1,000,000 times better handling this than Trump. Literally any other person who primaried for either party in 2016 would have done better than Trump.

I literally cannot imagine any other modern US President saying & doing any of these things:
“It’s going to disappear - like a miracle.” (when no one in the CDC or scientific community believed that)
“Anyone can get a test” (said back in March, still not true in July)
“Churches will be packed on Easter” (delusional...)
“Vaccine will be here soon, maybe by September” (not happening. Maybe by September 2021)
“Nobody thought this could happen” (yes, his own administration tried to warn him in 2019 and the scientific community has know the big one was coming for year now)
“Numbers are going down” (when they were going up in May)
“It’s under control” (day after the US hit 50k cases in July)
“99% of cases are harmless” (so....we’re fine letting 3-4 million Americans die from covid if there was a 100% infection rate??? Nevermind the fact that somewhere between 5-15% of cases require hospitalization and significant numbers are reporting ongoing health issues weeks and months after testing
“Children don’t transmit coronavirus” (literally said this TODAY even though it’s false)


- Recklessly holds a public arena-style campaign rally in Tulsa where he does not wear a mask nor are they required (leads to outbreak of covid in Tulsa)
- Winds down Coronavirus task force while the pandemic is picking up steam
- Blocks the top science experts from participating in press conferences or tv interviews
- Promotes a drug as treatment plan that had not been thoroughly reviewed by the medical community (and later proved to worsen outcomes)
- Pulled reporting from the CDC over to Homeland Security

I cannot imagine any other US President calling it the “Chinese Virus”, “a (opposite political party) hoax”, or any other of the negligent Twitter vomit he’s typed.



He said it when he ran for President, “I alone can fix this” and it’s that outsized ego and unwillingness to listen and learn to anyone not named Donald Trump that has completely and totally made the US a 3rd world country in terms of fighting this Pandemic.



And locally in Texas, Gov. Abbott totally screwed us over by ignoring the CDC’s recommendations when coming out of quarantine, but at least it only took him 6 weeks to realize we were moving far too fast and to take action to start to turn the Texas trends around.

Thinking that these posts may well get deleted, I will keep this reply short.

You have moved the goal posts considerably from your post which started this where you wrote:

But I also wish we lived in a country where those arguing for religious freedoms would also practice loving their neighbors as much as they love themselves. You know, like Jesus religion and not Republican religion.

That is really a judgmental statement and is a far cry from complaining about the government's response, which I agree has been a cluster in every conceivable way.

YMMV.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Serious question: If the leaders of every other country who got Covid under control got kudos for their efforts (Germany, New Zealand, South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Switzerland), then why would we not place blame on leaders who did not employ the same tactics and allowed the virus to spiral out of control in other countries?

Leaders are always held accountable for their mistakes and administrative failures (Hurricane Katrina, Vietnam, the AIDS crisis, etc). Why would this get a pass?

So do you blame leaders in France, Sweden, Italy, Spain and The UK with the same fury? All of these countries have worse to far worse death rates than The US.

To partially answer your first question there is precisely zero chance early lockdowns, house arrests, punitive contact tracing as practiced in the countries you mentioned could be employed here.

The entity that deserves the most blame is The CDC for botching the first round of testing. Pretending Trump has actually made things particularly worse is silly.

Why not mention spring breakers, bar goers, rioters, legitimate protesters etc? It's just too easy to blame one guy and a religious group.

[PriscillaVanilla]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/20/polit...ntl/index.html

[san11]

Originally Posted by EDS_

So do you blame leaders in France, Sweden, Italy, Spain and The UK with the same fury? All of these countries have worse to far worse death rates than The US.

To partially answer your first question there is precisely zero chance early lockdowns, house arrests, punitive contact tracing as practiced in the countries you mentioned could be employed here.

The entity that deserves the most blame is The CDC for botching the first round of testing. Pretending Trump has actually made things particularly worse is silly.

Why not mention spring breakers, bar goers, rioters, legitimate protesters etc? It's just too easy to blame one guy and a religious group.

Look at Taiwan for how it should be done. They have implemented universal mask policy and contact tracing.

Only 7 deaths so far out of 23.7 million population and with just 81 miles off the coast of China.
They have not implemented lockdowns.
Taiwan govt added 60 new mask production lines to produce masks very early in Feb while other govt around the world were still thinking, they rationed mask and prevented hording of it. They are doing perfectly fine because their govt prepared for this issue and has plan to tackle it.

In my opinion ,that's how any govt should function regarding Covid.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by san11

Look at Taiwan for how it should be done. They have implemented universal mask policy and contact tracing.

Only 7 deaths so far out of 23.7 million population and with just 81 miles off the coast of China.
They have not implemented lockdowns.
Taiwan govt added 60 new mask production lines to produce masks very early in Feb while other govt around the world were still thinking, they rationed mask and prevented hording of it. They are doing perfectly fine because their govt prepared for this issue and has plan to tackle it.

In my opinion ,that's how any govt should function regarding Covid.

Our government cannot function as Taiwan did vis a vis Covid - 19.

A few of the reasons:
1. Taiwan is always on alert for diseases moving in from China - they've dealt with this kind of thing for eons.
2. Taiwan learned from SARS.
3. Taiwan has electronic medical records on every citizen. Those records are accessible to just about anyone in the medical profession. Further, records are shared with police and other government officials as a matter course. HIPAA alone makes every bit of that impossible on many levels in The US.

Notional stuff: If a person in Taiwan tests positive and the doc./nurse/admin. asks, "is anyone in your family sick/friends sick/where did you eat etc." the asker can pull up records with nothing but a name.

Outside of full on life and death emergencies in The US my son as an MD even in a hospital setting cannot look up records for any patient who is not officially his patient. Let alone share the same with cops or government officials.


Given all that Taiwan was able to effectively contact trace and force the sick and exposed into quarantine.

[NTXPerson]

While I agree that it was a a multitude of factors and agencies that contributed to the poor response here in the US, it is concerning that our most notable figure (the President) was not taking the virus seriously for a long time and making other agencies jobs difficult. The President may not be the only one to blame, but he is the leader of the US and needs to take more responsibility in the handling of the virus.

It is frustrating that there was a plan put in place for this exact scenario and it seems our government screwed it up at every step.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by NTXPerson

While I agree that it was a a multitude of factors and agencies that contributed to the poor response here in the US, it is concerning that our most notable figure (the President) was not taking the virus seriously for a long time and making other agencies jobs difficult. The President may not be the only one to blame, but he is the leader of the US and needs to take more responsibility in the handling of the virus.

It is frustrating that there was a plan put in place for this exact scenario and it seems our government screwed it up at every step.

I find it funny that the same people who are really quick to blame government for virtually everything else, and are doubly quick to say that government is useless and ineffective at everything are also very quick to protect the leader of that government when he proves their (false) notions correct- at least as pertains to his office.

A LEADER is held to task for the failure of his organization. We fire coaches for losing teams, even when it’s really the players on the field. We fire CEO’s for so much, as a tick in the wrong direction of profit, culture, or scandal. For other leaders, the slightest whiff of ineffective leadership leads to an equally quick forced exit on the simple basis of accountability. The leader is accountable for the decisions and failures of his organization. Whatever the organization. That is the American way.

Of course until it comes to THIS leader. (At least in the eyes of those that voted for him)

[Waterdragon8212]

For all of you bashing TC80 as an anti-Trumper, can any of you actually defend Trump's actions listed in her post? All I see is a bunch of misdirection and deflection. Yes, we have a bunch of people in this country who defend individual freedom at the cost of the greater good, but when that sentiment is literally modeled and encouraged by the leader of our country, it gives fuel to the fire.

Obviously Trump is not solely responsible for the virus - no one person can be responsible - especially when there is so much that we don't know. But flagrantly touting anti-science theories, refusing to wear a mask himself, silencing experts whose research he doesn't like, and regularly repeating misinformation and flat out lies...how can any rational person not admit this behavior has had a negative impact on the course of the virus in this country?