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Help! I am currently building with Toll Brothers in Texas. There have been numerous issues that I have had with them - some big - some small. The first issue was that they flipped the "hand of house" on me without telling me! I went back and forth with that and eventually they agreed to flip it back. Anyway - here is my question:
I am thinking about hiring an attorney to try and back out of the contract. I know that the contracts are written with Toll's best interest in mind - so the language is stacked against me. The reason for backing out though is that the house is supposed to be all brick (or that is what I thought). They just started bricking the exterior and I noticed that on the rear of the house on the 2nd floor area - about 40% of the area is for siding. When I asked the builder - the response I got was that the siding is "as per plan."
The builder only has 1 other house with the exact same model and elevation as mine in the neighborhood - but that house is 100% brick with no siding. I looked back at all of the paperwork that I signed - nothing, and I mean nothing, indicates any siding. On the work order where you specify color the order says Brick = a certain color (yes - painted brick) and trim = a certain color. I even thought maybe they would say the siding in question is an "accent" even though it obviously would not be considered - but even then - the paperwork says Accent = N/A.
I looked over the notes that I went over with the builder at the time of color selection. I had brick = color and trim = certain color...nothing about siding. And the trim was even a $1500 upgrade so I specifically spoke to the builder about the trim color. According to the builder, the siding would be colored the same as the trim.
This house is almost $1mm so a little upset by this. In looking at the contract, the contract specifies that the house will be built as outlined in Exhibit D of the agreement - however, there was no exhibit D that I signed and nothing that is stored in the system (they use Docusign).
When we were selecting the house - they didn't have any models in the neighborhood to look at. So they sent us to a different community. The model was not the same elevation but they had a few of my elevation being built - so I went to look from the outside. I did not look at the back of the house (going to take a trip today to see) so not sure if they have siding or all brick.
Also - in all pictures of the house - no picture showed the back of the house. From the front pictures it is assumed that it was all brick.
How can they do this if I did not sign off on any document saying siding? Any thoughts - I would like to hire an attorney and try to cancel the contract. Kinda pissed! Tks!
Help! I am currently building with Toll Brothers in Texas. There have been numerous issues that I have had with them - some big - some small. The first issue was that they flipped the "hand of house" on me without telling me! I went back and forth with that and eventually they agreed to flip it back. Anyway - here is my question:
I am thinking about hiring an attorney to try and back out of the contract. I know that the contracts are written with Toll's best interest in mind - so the language is stacked against me. The reason for backing out though is that the house is supposed to be all brick (or that is what I thought). They just started bricking the exterior and I noticed that on the rear of the house on the 2nd floor area - about 40% of the area is for siding. When I asked the builder - the response I got was that the siding is "as per plan."
The builder only has 1 other house with the exact same model and elevation as mine in the neighborhood - but that house is 100% brick with no siding. I looked back at all of the paperwork that I signed - nothing, and I mean nothing, indicates any siding. On the work order where you specify color the order says Brick = a certain color (yes - painted brick) and trim = a certain color. I even thought maybe they would say the siding in question is an "accent" even though it obviously would not be considered - but even then - the paperwork says Accent = N/A.
I looked over the notes that I went over with the builder at the time of color selection. I had brick = color and trim = certain color...nothing about siding. And the trim was even a $1500 upgrade so I specifically spoke to the builder about the trim color. According to the builder, the siding would be colored the same as the trim.
This house is almost $1mm so a little upset by this. In looking at the contract, the contract specifies that the house will be built as outlined in Exhibit D of the agreement - however, there was no exhibit D that I signed and nothing that is stored in the system (they use Docusign).
When we were selecting the house - they didn't have any models in the neighborhood to look at. So they sent us to a different community. The model was not the same elevation but they had a few of my elevation being built - so I went to look from the outside. I did not look at the back of the house (going to take a trip today to see) so not sure if they have siding or all brick.
Also - in all pictures of the house - no picture showed the back of the house. From the front pictures it is assumed that it was all brick.
How can they do this if I did not sign off on any document saying siding? Any thoughts - I would like to hire an attorney and try to cancel the contract. Kinda pissed! Tks!
As for this issue, not all cities allow 100% brick facing, don't ask me why. This is what I was told by the builder. For example, in the city of Frisco, you can't be allowed 100% brick. I went through a similar thing in Prosper where a house that I was building was 100% brick in McKinney but their website showed hardy board on the sides. So I got a confirmation from the builder in writing before I proceeded that they will be building 100% brick. In the city of Prosper you're not going to find anything less than 100% brick because thats the common standard.
You can try to escalate the issue and cancel the contract. But the problem is they will want to keep that deposit at the minimum for their trouble. Even though they will end up selling the house anyway. And that is the problem with choosing a house that is not built out. You really don't know the other sides of the pictures till you confirm with sales agent. Allot of things can easily get missed.
At the end, you may have to narrow down the decision very quickly because they will continue to build your house and keep adding structure and its only going to get harder to get out of the contract.
Thanks. The contract specifies arbitration. Do you know - did you have to sign off on anything that shows the front, side and rear of the house? Asking because looking at the multimedia discussion - there was a document that showed siding in the rear. Didn't notice it because we were discussing adding data lines. My wife and I took a look this weekend. In our exact neighborhood - there is only one house that is the same model/elevation as ours - and that has all brick. Then we went to a different TB neighborhood in Frisco - they had one home same model/elevation - but when we looked instead of siding in that location - they had stucco. In looking through the paperwork in Docusign - there is nothing that I can find to suggest that I knew or should have known about the siding. If I signed off on the actual elevation (front, side, back) - I would have thought they would have included it.
If I signed off on it and just didn't notice it - ok - my fault and life goes on. If I didn't sign off on it and every document that they gave me suggested all brick - then that is where I have an issue. What do ya all think?
Thanks. The contract specifies arbitration. Do you know - did you have to sign off on anything that shows the front, side and rear of the house? Asking because looking at the multimedia discussion - there was a document that showed siding in the rear. Didn't notice it because we were discussing adding data lines. My wife and I took a look this weekend. In our exact neighborhood - there is only one house that is the same model/elevation as ours - and that has all brick. Then we went to a different TB neighborhood in Frisco - they had one home same model/elevation - but when we looked instead of siding in that location - they had stucco. In looking through the paperwork in Docusign - there is nothing that I can find to suggest that I knew or should have known about the siding. If I signed off on the actual elevation (front, side, back) - I would have thought they would have included it.
If I signed off on it and just didn't notice it - ok - my fault and life goes on. If I didn't sign off on it and every document that they gave me suggested all brick - then that is where I have an issue. What do ya all think?
There is nothing in my contract about the house being 100% brick. The clauses are left open to include all kinds of exterior material. As I'm sure they use so much of the document as template and never the 2 homes in 2 different communities by the same builder are alike even though they maybe similar floor plans. Some actually even have different names for the same floor plan. However, on my architectural diagrams I see a table where it mentions of Brick 100% in Masonry section.
I’ve built a million dollar home with Toll brothers and yes to your question about signing pics with elevation from outside. You must’ve absolutely signed that. Go look back on your paperwork. I got a lot of siding too, more than I desired and after it was getting installed did I go back to look and yes I did sign those papers. Siding in some part of the house is absolutely necessary since those parts will not hold bricks or stones. Notice a bumped out window would usually have a siding holding it in otherwise brick house. You can perhaps ask a city engineer those question before hiring an attorney. Like you I also did not notice the siding until the house was being built. I am okay with it now and made peace with it. Plus I do not think that portion could hold brick.
I’ve built a million dollar home with Toll brothers and yes to your question about signing pics with elevation from outside. You must’ve absolutely signed that. Go look back on your paperwork. I got a lot of siding too, more than I desired and after it was getting installed did I go back to look and yes I did sign those papers. Siding in some part of the house is absolutely necessary since those parts will not hold bricks or stones. Notice a bumped out window would usually have a siding holding it in otherwise brick house. You can perhaps ask a city engineer those question before hiring an attorney. Like you I also did not notice the siding until the house was being built. I am okay with it now and made peace with it. Plus I do not think that portion could hold brick.
Thanks - I asked the builder for a copy of what I signed showing the back, front, sides. It is weird though - they use Docusign so I have a copy of everything that I signed. To be honest, there were soooo many documents that could one have slipped through and I just don't remember...absolutely. However, it is weird that it is not uploaded into Docusign.
Spoke to my wife - if I did sign off on it - hey - I screwed up and take my lumps. I actually don't have a problem with how the house looks with the siding. However, if they cannot produce the document, then I will get pissed. Thanks and I will let you all know what I find out!
I used to be a new build arbitration administrator for American Arbitration Association. People who filed for arbitration who didn't hire lawyers who were had successfully represented clients during arbitration at AAA often got screwed. Arbitration is often binding and can't be appealed in the courts. Furthermore, the rules are often very different and usually vary between the different arbitration groups. I would bet Toll Brothers either has an in house arbitration attorney or a firm on retainer for arbitration.
As for this issue, not all cities allow 100% brick facing, don't ask me why. This is what I was told by the builder.
That is not correct. Most of the north DFW cities require 100% masonary for facing materials (ie: on the front of the house) with the caveat that a few different materials count as 'brick', including cement fiberboard siding and stucco.
Or at least they did until the Texas legislature changed the laws that allowed cities to require specific materials beyond code 2-3 years ago. Now that is only able to required in specified districts. But most builders still try to meet the older requirements.
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