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Old 06-09-2021, 02:22 PM
 
3,756 posts, read 2,828,669 times
Reputation: 7688

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Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
Thats not how this works.

There is a difference between no police and crime vs. low police and crime. Very few think criminals should be on the honor system but high police numbers vs. low police numbers dont make a difference in crime. The statistics show that.

There is more to crime stats than what you're claiming. We've seen crime stats decrease here locally with the addition of more cops when Abbott send DPS troops here last fall.


https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11...-state-police/


You also cannot make the claim that because more officers does not equal less crime in one area, that the same would hold true in another.
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Old 06-09-2021, 02:24 PM
 
11,889 posts, read 11,785,547 times
Reputation: 10994
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
Thats not how this works.

There is a difference between no police and crime vs. low police and crime. Very few think criminals should be on the honor system but high police numbers vs. low police numbers dont make a difference in crime. The statistics show that.
You are completely glossing over demographic differences between those places. Why don't we compare Oslo to Rio while we are at it.
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Old 06-09-2021, 02:35 PM
 
2,890 posts, read 4,418,890 times
Reputation: 2274
New York City hasn't become a crime-ridden hellhole, but crime has gone up drastically since the "defund the police" nonsense began with the riots about 1 year ago. This thread, which I started, isn't in Politics nor in Current Events, but I will say that it's not only NYC. The anti-police movement has demoralized many cops, with many quitting or retiring early and this includes the NYPD. Add to that the very lax approach to law and order by certain Democrat leaders and criminals have been greatly emboldened; this is why crime rates are up by double-digits in many cities and this includes murder.

Within the context of New York City, the bail reform law passed by the authorities in the name of fighting racism because people of color can't always make bail has resulted in many crimes, and many of them very serious, now forcing the system to release somebody arrested in the same day. This isn't good government, but that's the reality of New York City, with a highly irresponsible leftist mayor who believes in the lies that come out of the left about systemic racism, police brutality, and so forth.

De Blasio had the NYPD all but stand by as criminals looted and destroyed many luxury stores in Manhattan last summer. The ire and outrage and anger I and others near me felt....

I am almost a lifelong New Yorker; I live in NJ, but I've been commuting to work into Manhattan since 2000, and it is only the pandemic that stopped that. I was there when 9/11 happened, and last summer, when I went into the office (for the first time since the pandemic started) to retrieve personal items from work, I walked through blocks of midtown that I usually bypassed because of my use of the subway. I had time and wanted to walk in areas I hadn't been to in months and which I wanted to see again. Store after store after store was boarded up. This is the result of crime which was unchecked, and again, it's leftist government doing all this nonsense.

The many black-on-Asian attacks in NYC (and elsewhere) which the left ludicrously and unintelligently blames on "white supremacy" is a result of this as well.

Now, as someone who has visited suburbs north of Dallas, a move there wouldn't be necessarily to flee crime. I've been living for a long time in a very tranquil and safe and family-friendly town. Not that there is never car theft, for example, in Flower Mound or Plano or Lewisville, but I know those towns are generally safe and as long as one learns about them enough to know which parts of whatever town to avoid, the odds one will be the victim of a violent crime in that part of Texas is extremely low.

If I do make the move, it'll be for more house/space for the money, a lower cost of living (I know it's not cheap - I don't expect, for example, 48-ounce steaks for $8!... but based on what I've read and been told, one does get more value for one's dollar in north Texas than in the NYC area), quality schools, and a more conservative/Republican feel and environment. I ask nobody to judge me on this, and I know there's tons of diversity in race, culture, and politics in suburbs north of Dallas.

The heat does worry me a bit - but it's not as if July and August aren't hot in New York City. To walk in midtown Manhattan in mid-July is not an exercise in trying to keep one's body warm.
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Old 06-09-2021, 02:36 PM
 
Location: New Caney, TX
669 posts, read 684,948 times
Reputation: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
Crime ridden hell hole?

Hate to break it to you but both Dallas and Houston have higher crime rates than NYC.
At least in Houston/Dallas, you don't live on top of each other like we did in NYC!

Also, crime in NYC has skyrocketed post covid, where that has not been the case as much in the Houston area.
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Old 06-09-2021, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
5,104 posts, read 2,181,060 times
Reputation: 6905
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
You are completely glossing over demographic differences between those places. Why don't we compare Oslo to Rio while we are at it.
Thats an exaggeration.

The claim you made is that less cops = more crime and you compared NYC and Dallas' cop totals to do it. Those places arent similar in culture or demographics. So if you want to use that comparison to make a point comparing Philadelphia and Houston should be perfectly valid. Philadelphia has many more cops and still a much higher violent crime rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katana49 View Post
There is more to crime stats than what you're claiming. We've seen crime stats decrease here locally with the addition of more cops when Abbott send DPS troops here last fall.


https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11...-state-police/


You also cannot make the claim that because more officers does not equal less crime in one area, that the same would hold true in another.
And that also does not mean that more cops equal less crime. You have to remember that was the claim that was originally made: more cops = less crime. That doesnt bear out in the stats. The claim I am NOT making is that less cops = less crime. The truth is complicated.
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Old 06-09-2021, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
5,104 posts, read 2,181,060 times
Reputation: 6905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prey521 View Post
At least in Houston/Dallas, you don't live on top of each other like we did in NYC!

Also, crime in NYC has skyrocketed post covid, where that has not been the case as much in the Houston area.
First statement I get. I couldnt do NYC for that reason.

The second statement is factually incorrect. Yes crime did skyrocket in NYC but it also did in Houston to about the same extent.
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Houston
3,688 posts, read 2,892,253 times
Reputation: 3024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prey521 View Post
At least in Houston/Dallas, you don't live on top of each other like we did in NYC!

Also, crime in NYC has skyrocketed post covid, where that has not been the case as much in the Houston area.
Thank goodness you're not one of those insufferable posters who are common in the Texas forum who claim that typical Texas subdivisions are horrible because it's "people living on top of one another." Thank you for stating factual reality.
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:33 PM
 
4,730 posts, read 1,827,930 times
Reputation: 1867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
New York City hasn't become a crime-ridden hellhole, but crime has gone up drastically since the "defund the police" nonsense began with the riots about 1 year ago. This thread, which I started, isn't in Politics nor in Current Events, but I will say that it's not only NYC. The anti-police movement has demoralized many cops, with many quitting or retiring early and this includes the NYPD. Add to that the very lax approach to law and order by certain Democrat leaders and criminals have been greatly emboldened; this is why crime rates are up by double-digits in many cities and this includes murder.

Within the context of New York City, the bail reform law passed by the authorities in the name of fighting racism because people of color can't always make bail has resulted in many crimes, and many of them very serious, now forcing the system to release somebody arrested in the same day. This isn't good government, but that's the reality of New York City, with a highly irresponsible leftist mayor who believes in the lies that come out of the left about systemic racism, police brutality, and so forth.

De Blasio had the NYPD all but stand by as criminals looted and destroyed many luxury stores in Manhattan last summer. The ire and outrage and anger I and others near me felt....

I am almost a lifelong New Yorker; I live in NJ, but I've been commuting to work into Manhattan since 2000, and it is only the pandemic that stopped that. I was there when 9/11 happened, and last summer, when I went into the office (for the first time since the pandemic started) to retrieve personal items from work, I walked through blocks of midtown that I usually bypassed because of my use of the subway. I had time and wanted to walk in areas I hadn't been to in months and which I wanted to see again. Store after store after store was boarded up. This is the result of crime which was unchecked, and again, it's leftist government doing all this nonsense.

The many black-on-Asian attacks in NYC (and elsewhere) which the left ludicrously and unintelligently blames on "white supremacy" is a result of this as well.

Now, as someone who has visited suburbs north of Dallas, a move there wouldn't be necessarily to flee crime. I've been living for a long time in a very tranquil and safe and family-friendly town. Not that there is never car theft, for example, in Flower Mound or Plano or Lewisville, but I know those towns are generally safe and as long as one learns about them enough to know which parts of whatever town to avoid, the odds one will be the victim of a violent crime in that part of Texas is extremely low.

If I do make the move, it'll be for more house/space for the money, a lower cost of living (I know it's not cheap - I don't expect, for example, 48-ounce steaks for $8!... but based on what I've read and been told, one does get more value for one's dollar in north Texas than in the NYC area), quality schools, and a more conservative/Republican feel and environment. I ask nobody to judge me on this, and I know there's tons of diversity in race, culture, and politics in suburbs north of Dallas.

The heat does worry me a bit - but it's not as if July and August aren't hot in New York City. To walk in midtown Manhattan in mid-July is not an exercise in trying to keep one's body warm.
Well, in West Texas you can get a 72 ounce steak free.. It comes with a catch though
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:01 AM
 
2,890 posts, read 4,418,890 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
Well, in West Texas you can get a 72 ounce steak free.. It comes with a catch though
I need to eat the whole thing and it's free. Yes, I've seen that on TV.
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:11 AM
 
Location: "The Dirty Irv" Irving, TX
3,955 posts, read 2,259,774 times
Reputation: 4591
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
And that also does not mean that more cops equal less crime. You have to remember that was the claim that was originally made: more cops = less crime. That doesnt bear out in the stats. The claim I am NOT making is that less cops = less crime. The truth is complicated.
I understood what you meant and agree. It really is much more complected than that.

Having lots of cops isn't necessary for a city to be safe.

Adding a bunch more cops doesn't seem to necessarily make a place safe.

To add to that:

Increasing the number of cops in an area seems to sometimes, maybe even usually result in a decrease in certain specific crimes in that area...but at what long term cost?

I mean yes, locking up more people can sometimes help lower crime in the short run, maybe...or at least Thats what some conservatives argue is the cause for the decrease of crime in the US between the 70s and now. Lock up the poor people so they can't commit more crimes.

But crime has also dropped in places that don't lock up the number of people we do and in places that didn't adapt the "Broken Window Policy" and stuff.

The truth is we don't know for sure what caused crime to drop since the 90s and to pretend we do know is intellectually dishonest.

Thats without considering the financial and human cost of locking so many people up....it costs alot of money and ruins alot of lives.
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