Frisco 6A (Houston, Dallas, Plano: 2013, houses, theater)

[20Hope20]

Why dodging being 6A for team sports is so important for an educational institution? What percentage of students actually play on these teams? 2%? Why rest of the 98% have to sacrifice for their needs? Is there a way to redistribute willing athletes only?

“That’s because without that, the district says Reedy is at risk for growing into a 6-A school, where students would have to compete against much larger high schools in other districts.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dfw.cbs...-growth/%3famp

[Johnhw2]

I think Frisco has elected to keep their school sizes small because they feel it gives them a better education result and the lack of 6A athletics is merely a coincidental impact of this decision. I am not expert on schools so consider this a bystander's view.

This step gives Frisco a niche in the northern suburbs where someone wanting smaller schools is more likely to go Frisco than say Allen with its single huge high school approach. Its just another example of how DFW gives you choices for many things when you pick an area to move to, Choices are always good to have

[cordata]

I wish I could remember which movie this was maybe the World According to Garp. Male teen character is trying to cut weight for wrestling. Girl teen character says ”why are you trying to get small to wrestle little guys? Why don't you try to get big so you can wrestle big guys?”

[texstout]

I think its a great niche for Frisco to concentrate on 'relatively' smaller sized schools. (Let's be honest - they are still big compared to most high schools).



I don't think its just for sports - but even that is not a bad thing. From friends, its almost impossible to be a varsity athlete at Allen HS if you aren't on track for Div 1. Its just that competitive. Being at a slightly smaller school gives kids more ability to be a leader in band, on stage in theater, compete in academic decathlon, and so on.


I graduated with 1000+ students and despite being top 7%, NHS, swimmer/theater, kid...I frankly knew a tiny percentage of my classmates. It just was too big. I look at my old yearbooks and don't recognize anyone. Its sad. My HS eventually became a 6A (used to be that 5A was as big as you could be) and then spun off a 5A separate HS in my hometown suburb of Houston. They didn't want the two HS to compete against each other since they are right next to each other.



My son is an 8th grader and is the midst of touring and applying to high schools. He will probably go public, but even these schools are a fraction of the size of my old high school.



That said - I have friends who live in Allen and LOVE the HS. Apparently, with a big size you get state of the art amenities and every type of niche to find your interest.

[jgn2013]

Originally Posted by texstout

I think its a great niche for Frisco to concentrate on 'relatively' smaller sized schools. (Let's be honest - they are still big compared to most high schools).



I don't think its just for sports - but even that is not a bad thing. From friends, its almost impossible to be a varsity athlete at Allen HS if you aren't on track for Div 1. Its just that competitive. Being at a slightly smaller school gives kids more ability to be a leader in band, on stage in theater, compete in academic decathlon, and so on.


I graduated with 1000+ students and despite being top 7%, NHS, swimmer/theater, kid...I frankly knew a tiny percentage of my classmates. It just was too big. I look at my old yearbooks and don't recognize anyone. Its sad. My HS eventually became a 6A (used to be that 5A was as big as you could be) and then spun off a 5A separate HS in my hometown suburb of Houston. They didn't want the two HS to compete against each other since they are right next to each other.



My son is an 8th grader and is the midst of touring and applying to high schools. He will probably go public, but even these schools are a fraction of the size of my old high school.



That said - I have friends who live in Allen and LOVE the HS. Apparently, with a big size you get state of the art amenities and every type of niche to find your interest.

I went to a school that was "5-A" when I was in HS but is now currently 6-A. My graduating class had high attrition from freshman to senior year (freshman class in 2000 had about 1,000 students; down to 550 by spring 2004). It's hard to imagine the size of some of these schools and how disconnected things can feel for students.

For Allen, I suspect their reasoning is mostly for sports. There's no reason, academically speaking, to have 6,000+ students in a single high school. You can split up into two or three high schools and make things much more efficient for students, teachers, administrators etc. In sports, the super large high schools give you a bigger talent pool to choose from. If Lincoln, South Oak Cliff and Carter merged into some super high school 20 years ago, they'd have an endless stream of D-1 talent and state championships in both hoops and football but likely wouldn't have helped academics at all.

[DitsyD]

Originally Posted by jgn2013

I went to a school that was "5-A" when I was in HS but is now currently 6-A. My graduating class had high attrition from freshman to senior year (freshman class in 2000 had about 1,000 students; down to 550 by spring 2004). It's hard to imagine the size of some of these schools and how disconnected things can feel for students.

For Allen, I suspect their reasoning is mostly for sports. There's no reason, academically speaking, to have 6,000+ students in a single high school. You can split up into two or three high schools and make things much more efficient for students, teachers, administrators etc. In sports, the super large high schools give you a bigger talent pool to choose from. If Lincoln, South Oak Cliff and Carter merged into some super high school 20 years ago, they'd have an endless stream of D-1 talent and state championships in both hoops and football but likely wouldn't have helped academics at all.

I grew up in Plano back in the day, when there was only PSHS. I was a geek, and in a smaller school, I don't think that I would have found other students with similar interests, but I did, and I felt connected to my friends and school. I'm still connected to many of those friends.

Did you go to a large university? Did you feel connected there? If large schools are bad, then why do so many students want to attend UT or Texas A&M?

When Plano Senior was built, people insisted it was for sports. Actually, is was for vocational classes. They offered lots of those classes when they opened and the administration said that if they had to split the costs between two schools, that they couldn't have offered so many. I remember shop, auto body, tv repair, beautician training, and I know there were others. Plano still has large senior high schools, but they are hardly football power houses.

As for efficient use of teachers, in a school of 6000+ in this area, you might have enough students interested in Mandarin, to be able to offer that class. In a high school of 500, no way. Same thing with some of the AP classes.

[DFWGuy422]

Originally Posted by DitsyD

I grew up in Plano back in the day, when there was only PSHS. I was a geek, and in a smaller school, I don't think that I would have found other students with similar interests, but I did, and I felt connected to my friends and school. I'm still connected to many of those friends.

Did you go to a large university? Did you feel connected there? If large schools are bad, then why do so many students want to attend UT or Texas A&M?

When Plano Senior was built, people insisted it was for sports. Actually, is was for vocational classes. They offered lots of those classes when they opened and the administration said that if they had to split the costs between two schools, that they couldn't have offered so many. I remember shop, auto body, tv repair, beautician training, and I know there were others. Plano still has large senior high schools, but they are hardly football power houses.

As for efficient use of teachers, in a school of 6000+ in this area, you might have enough students interested in Mandarin, to be able to offer that class. In a high school of 500, no way. Same thing with some of the AP classes.

Size is correlated with amenities, but a lot of the smaller high-performing schools offer the same (I would be willing to guess that Highland Park and especially privates offer similar, if not better, amenities to Plano/Allen etc).

The downside to larger schools is that it's so much easier to get lost in the crowd. I went to a small school and when it came time for me to apply to law school, my teachers put me in touch with alumni who went to the schools I was applying to. I might have had to compete for that sort of individualized attention with 20+ kids at a larger school. It's super easy to blend in to the background at a larger school; smaller schools preempt that possibility.

On the other hand, it's an expectation for students going to the A&Ms/UTs of the world that students will have to be more assertive to get that sort of individualized attention. Few students in 9th/10th grade are that confident at schools with 3,000+ people, whereas students at a school with 30-200 students are more or less forced to. Just a thought

[DitsyD]

Originally Posted by DFWGuy422

On the other hand, it's an expectation for students going to the A&Ms/UTs of the world that students will have to be more assertive to get that sort of individualized attention. Few students in 9th/10th grade are that confident at schools with 3,000+ people, whereas students at a school with 30-200 students are more or less forced to. Just a thought

I won't disagree, but Allen High School is only 10-12th grades. They have a freshman center for their 9th graders.

Plano has high schools for their 9-10 grades. Two high schools feed into one senior high school. So, while there are still more than 200 students, it is smaller than the senior high school.

The larger schools usually have plans in place to help students that might fall into the cracks. Plano senior highs are divided into sub schools with their own vice-principal and attendance office. I have heard that teachers in the core subjects meet to discuss students, especially students that seem to be having problems. Parents have access to their students grades online. Schools notify parents (phone, text & email) if a child is absent from classes that day. Plano schools have almost daily tutorials for students needing additional help. While professors have office hours, I don't think that most universities have this level of attention for students.

Choice is a good thing because none of our kids are the same or learn the same or have the same needs. Some students do better in small schools and some (like me) do better in larger schools.

[stephwin]

I went to a very small school (2A/3A) and while the classes and extracurriculars weren't as plentiful as they are now, I could've joined any group/club I wanted because there were so few of us. I knew kids that were in choir, band, theater, and sports all at the same time. There are some schools were there are simply too many kids interested in a sport or extracurricular and not enough spots. I also got individual attention from teachers that I'm not sure I would've gotten in a larger school. We're in Frisco ISD and I do like the small school model because it feels very similar to how I grew up. Frisco is very open about their small school model and I think most in FISD are supportive of it. Otherwise, I'm not sure why they would choose to live here.

[TheOverdog]

Size is correlated with amenities, but a lot of the smaller high-performing schools offer the same (I would be willing to guess that Highland Park and especially privates offer similar, if not better, amenities to Plano/Allen etc).

Maybe, but Plano and Allen both offer more college courses, honors courses, and AP courses than most high schools in the US.
The idea that they combine for sports is pretty weak. Plano West and East both have class sizes as large as Allen and both are terrible at football.


Carter may be smaller, but Dallas Skyline is among the largest schools in Texas.