What do you think of the DART? (Dallas, Irving: how much, buying)

[unexpected]

Dwong, stop typing in all caps!!

It's hard to grasp the size of the D/FW metroplex - the airport itself is bigger than the island of Manhattan. That's not anyone's fault, it's just how cities were constructed in the 20th century- see LA, Houston, Denver, the Triangle, etc.

Compounding this is the fact that our soil is absolutely terrible and we cannot build a subway system, everything has to be above ground on the rails or elevated.

That being said, it is a little like pissing on a forest fire, but I don't think that's DART's fault. I wish they'd build a Rail line along the Tollway in addition to 75. Also, I think that the suburbs should start taking initial for their own public transit. (I think a trolley system in Plano would be amazing).

[lh_newbie]

Moderator cut: no insults please

Sure, the sprawl doesn't make mass transit any easier - but with the Red Line running parallel to Central Expressway and handling 50-60,000 riders per day - most of which are during rush hour - it obviously helps with congestion.

[caligurltotx]

Moderator cut: referenced post has been edited

Sure, the sprawl doesn't make mass transit any easier - but with the Red Line running parallel to Central Expressway and handling 50-60,000 riders per day - most of which are during rush hour - it obviously helps with congestion.[/quote]


LOL that made me laugh... Oh that was redundant But Rome wasn't built in a day so the Transit system in Dallas will get there. I was looking at the Dart map and it seems they are expanding to DFW airport and farther S/E. I wonder will it ever expand farther north to some of the growing suburbs.

I wonder if Dwong hates TX. All his arguments I've read seem to be totally anti TX. But I like reading his thoughts.

[DWong]

Originally Posted by caligurltotx

LOL that made me laugh... Oh that was redundant But Rome wasn't built in a day so the Transit system in Dallas will get there. I was looking at the Dart map and it seems they are expanding to DFW airport and farther S/E. I wonder will it ever expand farther north to some of the growing suburbs.

I wonder if Dwong hates TX. All his arguments I've read seem to be totally anti TX. But I like reading his thoughts.

Again, some of y'all had the hatorade this morning. Uhh... duh DFW is larger than Manhattan, just look at the population density. Heck, you can walk across San Francisco in 3 hours. I was just wondering how it is handling the sprawl (sorry if this is offensive). Ya, ask people in Riverside San Bernardino if they had mass transit that would take them to LA - they'd love it.
Either way, I saw an article that put Dallas #5 on time spent commuting... just wanted to see how the mass transit was coming along... heck San Diego we have a thing similiar to DART - forget it! It doesn't work, won't work and is a big waste of $$$.. Sure if works for those who live/work downtown, but it doesn't reach most of the areas either. Not to mention we have to bore tunnels and put it through canyons and large spans crossing valleys. In short, our is a failure, LA's is actually better (it does have a subway system), but will never be that sucessful.

[caligurltotx]

Dwong San Berdoo and Riverside both have transit that takes you into L.A. I used to take the train from San Berdoo into L.A. There is also a Riverside line.

I wasn't hating just wondering how ya really feel about TX? Are you still planning to move to TX?

[DWong]

Originally Posted by caligurltotx

Dwong San Berdoo and Riverside both have transit that takes you into L.A. I used to take the train from San Berdoo into L.A. There is also a Riverside line.

I wasn't hating just wondering how ya really feel about TX? Are you still planning to move to TX?

Ya those lines in Riverside/San Bernard getting you close to work will be like winning a small lottery. Sure it can get you to the city, but now what?
Cabs? buses? forget it, 2 hrs in traffic sometimes is better than a train that stops every miles, or a bus that has pick ups everyone. You really can't win with both

Well, as long as the family is still healthy we are staying in CA. Depending on how things go with life - that will determine where and when we go... I just wanted to get my feelers out there, both positive and negative.

[lh_newbie]

For the last few years, the city planners in Dallas have been going down the path of increased density and what is called "Transit Oriented Development". Here's a couple of examples:

- Within a 10 minute walk from my front door is the new Lake Highlands town center. In it's place was 70 acres of property with 1300 garden style apartments. The DART Blue Line ran behind the property, but did not have a station. This has now been completely scraped. In it's place, DART is building a new station, 1700 residential units are going in (1/3 are for-sale, 2/3 are for-rent), 300K sq ft retail and 50-100K sq ft of office space along with 20 acres of public park space (there's a creek that goes through - there will be a couple dams added to create some small ponds). Increased density, added DART rail station and mixed use. This is a $400M project. (on a side note - just south of this project, there are two garden style, older apartments being torn down to be rebuilt, which are going from about 275 units to 600-ish... I don't have the exact numbers, I just know it's more than 2x density) (another note... there's a ~8 acre property north of the town center project that had an old church on it that is potentially going to be replaced with a 200-250 unit retirement facility)

- Park Lane Place - there wasn't much on this property, so it's an in-fill project. This is a 33 acre project - it will have 700K sq ft retail, 340K sq ft office, 325 multifamily units, 230-room hotel w/ 88-condos and is located across the street from the Park Lane DART station. There will be a skyway between the DART rail (it's an elevated station) over Park Lane, so people don't have to cross the street - they just go above it (much safer). This is a $650M project.

- Mockingbird station, which is already anamazingly successful transit oriented development, has recently completed a retail expansion.

- Uptown/West Village - uh, if you haven't been here, it's got good density already and keeps on building... and building...

- Victory Plaza - used to be a field...it's now filled with tons of residential, hotels, retail, etc, etc. This is a $3 BILLION project.

- Downtown Dallas had several large buildings that sat empty for many, many years that have been converted to residential. I don't know the current exact numbers, but I want to say that the central business district is on target to cross 10,000 residents in the next 18-24 months.

So, as far as density goes - the suburbs don't and won't have it. Therefore, DART will merely be a series of spokes to pick up commuters. I think going FURTHER into the burbs would be a mistake. But once you get into the borders of Dallas proper, there is a lot of movement toward increasing density. Mass transit is gaining residential units and retail - these destinations will drive usage. I think things are going to just get better and better for DART.

Brian

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by DWong

MEANING WHAT??? NOT VERY EFFECTIVE? HERE'S A QUESTION TO NATIVES.... ITS DART REALLY EFFECTIVE FOR LESSENING TRAFFIC? OR IS THE SPRAWL IN ALL DIRECTIONS JUST NOT GONNA COVER IT?

Since the number of transit users jumped dramatically when rail was introduced, and since the new transit riders would have otherwise driven, I'd say... yes, the rail system has reduced traffic.

Sprawl? Good luck in defining it. The plain fact is that the American people like it, however it is defined, and it exists because they are in the majority. In this country, as in most others, the majority rules.

The purpose of DART rail is to allow for an alternative to a suburban, low-density auto-oriented lifestyle. Another purpose for it is to relieve the inevitable chokepoints on the transportation corridors. A metro the size of DFW should have everything.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by unexpected

I wish they'd build a Rail line along the Tollway in addition to 75. Also, I think that the suburbs should start taking initial for their own public transit. (I think a trolley system in Plano would be amazing).

That would be great, to have transit up the Tollway to Addison. Actually, the municipalities along the BNSF rail line, Irving, Carrollton, Frisco, etc., are looking into funding commuter rail from DT Dallas to Las Colinas to the Carrollton transit cenyter to Frisco.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by DWong

Again, some of y'all had the hatorade this morning. Uhh... duh DFW is larger than Manhattan, just look at the population density. Heck, you can walk across San Francisco in 3 hours. I was just wondering how it is handling the sprawl (sorry if this is offensive). Ya, ask people in Riverside San Bernardino if they had mass transit that would take them to LA - they'd love it.
Either way, I saw an article that put Dallas #5 on time spent commuting... just wanted to see how the mass transit was coming along... heck San Diego we have a thing similiar to DART - forget it! It doesn't work, won't work and is a big waste of $$$.. Sure if works for those who live/work downtown, but it doesn't reach most of the areas either. Not to mention we have to bore tunnels and put it through canyons and large spans crossing valleys. In short, our is a failure, LA's is actually better (it does have a subway system), but will never be that sucessful.

Well, Central Dallas is to DFW as San Francisco is to the sprawled Bay Area. There is similar density in both urban cores.

You saw an article? That stuff is meaningless. Magazines don't spend the millions of dollars for a scientifically meaningful study, just for the sake of one magazine article. They just have some reporter make it up.

The San Diego Trolley is not a failure by most people's standards. It carries an enormous number of people and covers almost all of its costs from the farebox, mostly due to its connection between downtown SD and the Mex border. BTW, the purpose of a rail system is not to serve every conceivable point in a metro area, but to relieve chokepoints at places with dense traffic patterns.