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I'm not entirely sure what I think re the cap/auto admit programs. I don't think for a second that it ensures the highest caliber students are let in; however, I can't think of many better solutions for the issues they're trying to address.
That screams red flag to me re high school grades. Worth mentioning that a lot of high schools offer courses that are nominally AP to denote themselves as advanced but don't teach AP curriculum. The more competitive schools teach above and beyond AP curriculum; however, I would guess that the less competitive schools teach far below it.
My problem with auto admit rules is simple..............too many false positive kids are admitted. Staying with UT you know there is a problem when nearly all of the less competitive auto-admits are warehoused into a few specific colleges.
My problem with auto admit rules is simple..............too many false positive kids are admitted. Staying with UT you know there is a problem when nearly all of the less competitive auto-admits are warehoused into a few specific colleges.
I agree that this is a big problem with that program. Would be interested to see what the turnover is from auto-admits -- the amount of kids who funnel in from ACC or CAP after 1/2 years suggests that a lot of spots are open, and I would guess that most are being vacated by auto admits.
IMO an auto admit to CAP or ACC/Blinn/equivalent would be better than auto admit to UT for this program. However, the law has yet to be reversed, so it looks like it's here to stay for better or worse
+1. Test scores are often the best metric available because they're standardized and therefore an apples to apples comparison. GPA, especially once you get to high school, college etc loses a lot of meaning because school quality and class rigor varies tremendously
These have faded some because of, "equity" pressures but a few medical schools most notably Washington Univ in St. Louis had an automatic admit MCAT score of 40 (old scale). There was no auto admit per grades obviously.
These have faded some because of, "equity" pressures but a few medical schools most notably Washington Univ in St. Louis had an automatic admit MCAT score of 40 (old scale). There was no auto admit per grades obviously.
This seems like a good policy. X MCAT/SAT/ACT/GMAT/LSAT means the same thing everywhere. X GPA means relatively less without context.
I very much doubt your claim that grades are much more important than ISEE scores is specifically correct.
I know a guy who ran admissions for a local private for years. He used tell anyone who would listen.....
Least to most important.....
1. Interviews - unless the kid soils himself or won't talk the interview means nearly nothing. Show up on time, talk a little, maybe smile = pass.
2. Essays - given little weight because 75% of the time parents help or write the things.
3. Verifiable ECs - matter.
4. Grades - matter but are variable per schools attended
5. Test scores - matter because they help ID which kids with good grades previously will likely struggle or fail and which will thrive. In other words there are just too many kids with excellent grades.
Further, this sort of operations order if you will seems to apply just about everywhere in education.
You and I have agreed on exactly 0 things in the history of C-D/Dallas. Having been through this process and watching loads of families go through this at Hockaday and SM, it's clear to me that for those schools:
- ISEE scores are primarily used to disqualify, not qualify. Straight 8-9's don't get you in, but straight 4-5's keep you out. The rest is reading tea leaves.
- The shadow day/interview is very important for those schools, they focus on "fit" in a huge way.
- They can tell when a kid has written an essay. It's not really that hard.
You and I have agreed on exactly 0 things in the history of C-D/Dallas. Having been through this process and watching loads of families go through this at Hockaday and SM, it's clear to me that for those schools:
- ISEE scores are primarily used to disqualify, not qualify. Straight 8-9's don't get you in, but straight 4-5's keep you out. The rest is reading tea leaves.
- The shadow day/interview is very important for those schools, they focus on "fit" in a huge way.
- They can tell when a kid has written an essay. It's not really that hard.
On your first point I agree. We nearly always disagree. Real life would be boring if everyone agreed all the time.
A lot of those top 6% auto admits from underprivileged high schools are admitted into College of Liberal Arts, Education or other less competitive majors.
UT has done studies which show that its auto-admits, non-auto and CAP'd students are perform rather similarly in terms of GPA. I believe auto-admits (75% of the 90% in-state number) perform the best. I encouraged my nephew in rural Texas to apply to A&M business because he was top 10% and would be auto-admit. Yep, he'll probably struggle.
Back to Dallas privates, my nephew attends a religious private HS who said he was going to take AP Statistics as a senior because it's an easy 100. If that's the case with the OP's target HS, it's not great preparation for college. It's good to hear about grade distribution and outcomes. If students are getting easy A's, hopefully they're getting easy 5s on their AP tests.
Sounds about right to me.
People with kids at very competitive high schools always complain that their Little Johnny can't get into UT but "those kids" at a rural or urban high school receive the auto-admits.
I've heard that one of the best predictors of college GPA is high school GPA. In other words, if you're a Type A, hard worker....that doesn't magically disappear in the transition between HS and College. The rural or urban kid might struggle a bit at first but their innate desire to succeed will eventually win out. If they're unable to graduate, it can just as easily be for financial reasons as it would academic reasons.
The high SAT score/non 6% suburban kid has had every advantage in addition to already being above average in intelligence. Prep classes, the best teachers, college educated/helicopter parents etc., will make the kid seem like a better bet on paper but I don't think the school should only accept this kind of student. Frankly the bigger problem is that it seems like if kids don't get into UT/A&M, they throw up their hands and go out of state. Is this purely because those schools are clearly head & shoulders above the rest or is it because HS students don't realize that they can be successful with degrees from other schools?
People with kids at very competitive high schools always complain that their Little Johnny can't get into UT but "those kids" at a rural or urban high school receive the auto-admits.
I've heard that one of the best predictors of college GPA is high school GPA. In other words, if you're a Type A, hard worker....that doesn't magically disappear in the transition between HS and College. The rural or urban kid might struggle a bit at first but their innate desire to succeed will eventually win out. If they're unable to graduate, it can just as easily be for financial reasons as it would academic reasons.
The high SAT score/non 6% suburban kid has had every advantage in addition to already being above average in intelligence. Prep classes, the best teachers, college educated/helicopter parents etc., will make the kid seem like a better bet on paper but I don't think the school should only accept this kind of student. Frankly the bigger problem is that it seems like if kids don't get into UT/A&M, they throw up their hands and go out of state. Is this purely because those schools are clearly head & shoulders above the rest or is it because HS students don't realize that they can be successful with degrees from other schools?
Re your last point: UT and A&M are head and shoulders above every other in state public school save maybe UTD, which is a small step below but suffers from the perception of being a commuter/safety school. Texas Tech isn’t on the same planet as Ut/A&M, and the privates are just too expensive for most people + heavy scholarships at SMU/TCU are unlikely if the kid couldn’t get into UT/A&M. Suddenly OU and Arkansas don’t look too bad — they aren’t on the same page as UT/A&M but way better than Tech and have some standout programs. That, and they will hand out money like noone’s business to strong test/low class rank kids.
People with kids at very competitive high schools always complain that their Little Johnny can't get into UT but "those kids" at a rural or urban high school receive the auto-admits.
I've heard that one of the best predictors of college GPA is high school GPA. In other words, if you're a Type A, hard worker....that doesn't magically disappear in the transition between HS and College. The rural or urban kid might struggle a bit at first but their innate desire to succeed will eventually win out. If they're unable to graduate, it can just as easily be for financial reasons as it would academic reasons.
The high SAT score/non 6% suburban kid has had every advantage in addition to already being above average in intelligence. Prep classes, the best teachers, college educated/helicopter parents etc., will make the kid seem like a better bet on paper but I don't think the school should only accept this kind of student. Frankly the bigger problem is that it seems like if kids don't get into UT/A&M, they throw up their hands and go out of state. Is this purely because those schools are clearly head & shoulders above the rest or is it because HS students don't realize that they can be successful with degrees from other schools?
To your last point Texas is and has long been a one of the top exporters of rising college freshmen.
Re your last point: UT and A&M are head and shoulders above every other in state public school save maybe UTD, which is a small step below but suffers from the perception of being a commuter/safety school. Texas Tech isn’t on the same planet as Ut/A&M, and the privates are just too expensive for most people + heavy scholarships at SMU/TCU are unlikely if the kid couldn’t get into UT/A&M. Suddenly OU and Arkansas don’t look too bad — they aren’t on the same page as UT/A&M but way better than Tech and have some standout programs. That, and they will hand out money like noone’s business to strong test/low class rank kids.
I graduated from UTD and felt like I received a quality education. They were (and maybe still are?) handing out money like hotcakes. Had financial aid (Pell Grants etc) my freshman year and earned a 3.6 GPA. They then gave me a full ride afterwards. I didn't even know that was possible.
You touched on something about the commuter/safety school perception. Quite a few of my friends were 1st generation Americans (Korean, Nigerian, Indian, Pakistani, Ethiopian, Eritrean etc.) and they all flocked to UTD without much hesitation. The multigenerational American kids at my high school never even considered going there; even those that were firmly committed to majoring in STEM. Their reasoning was that "XYZ school has an excellent program" in their desired field of study. This always seemed to lead them to schools that were known for having great frat parties and a good football team.
I think that the traditional college experience is much more important than students let on. They'll never tell their parents how much they want to get trashed on Sixth Street, flirt with the best looking Tri-Delts and show up half-baked to UT, Tech or A & M football games....but I think that's a lot more important to them than their parents realize. UTD by comparison was very Spartan and the student body was considerably older when I was there. I think our graduate-level student population was almost as high as the undergraduate population but this was almost 20 years ago. I'm sure it's different now.
The "fun" part always confused me because we had so much fun going to clubs in Dallas. Nightlife was better than any college town with the only difference being that you'd be mixing with a lot of people that aren't currently in school.
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