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Old 05-04-2022, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Dallas suburbs
315 posts, read 221,044 times
Reputation: 505

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
You honestly don't understand why a city might be interested in ensuring its residents can afford housing?

Yes, the logic of "If you can't afford something, don't buy it" obviously makes sense. But whether housing can be afforded in this instance is a variable, not a constant.
you've yet to explain why a city SHOULD be interested in affordable housing, you're just repeatingly disagreeing with me.
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Old 05-04-2022, 09:11 PM
 
5,683 posts, read 4,089,405 times
Reputation: 7401
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeVilley View Post
you've yet to explain why a city SHOULD be interested in affordable housing, you're just repeatingly disagreeing with me.
I wasn't claiming to have put forth an argument. I was simply confirming that the question was as dumb as I was understanding it to be.

If a significant portion of residents were struggling with affording food or utilities, should a city be concerned with those things? If so, how is housing any less essential?

In the most basic terms I can think of, cities should be interested in their residents being able to secure necessities of survival. Housing is one of them.
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Old 05-05-2022, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Dallas suburbs
315 posts, read 221,044 times
Reputation: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
I wasn't claiming to have put forth an argument. I was simply confirming that the question was as dumb as I was understanding it to be.

If a significant portion of residents were struggling with affording food or utilities, should a city be concerned with those things? If so, how is housing any less essential?

In the most basic terms I can think of, cities should be interested in their residents being able to secure necessities of survival. Housing is one of them.
Ok, I understand where you're coming from better now. But the suburban cities don't put forth such initiatives to make living their more affordable.

The following analogy isn't perfect, but this is how I see it:

The City of Dallas is a steak restaurant that wants to create a safe and inviting dining experience. No one is saying its the best steak around, but they serve steak. There is a live band for entertainment, some cleaning staff, and some medical staff on standby in case someone chokes.

The surrounding cities sell hamburgers and they also want to create a safe and inviting dining experience. Some of those cities have higher quality hamburgers some don't; some have waitstaff some dont. Some have live bands, some just have TVs on the wall playing Garth Brooks videos etc.

I understand the price of beef is rising for everyone, steak and hamburger, and that the City of Dallas should try to retain its customers, maybe offer a coupon here or there, or cutback on some of the services it provides to keep things going. But why would they spend a bunch of money on figuring out how to sell hamburgers to a table of customers that could be ordering steak? Why is the City spending current revenue dollars on a plan to guarantee they receive less revenue dollars in the future?
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Old 05-05-2022, 10:02 AM
 
300 posts, read 281,015 times
Reputation: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeVilley View Post
you've yet to explain why a city SHOULD be interested in affordable housing, you're just repeatingly disagreeing with me.
Because a city needs a workforce/population. Do you not see how it could be an issue if a significant amount of would-be residents can’t afford to live someplace?

The policies geared towards affordable housing are well-intended, but often disastrous; the need for people to be able to afford to live somewhere seems like it should be pretty obvious
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Old 05-05-2022, 10:28 AM
 
5,683 posts, read 4,089,405 times
Reputation: 7401
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeVilley View Post
Ok, I understand where you're coming from better now. But the suburban cities don't put forth such initiatives to make living their more affordable.
Because most of the suburbs are far more economically homogeneous than the city of Dallas is. There have much less of a housing affordability issue to contend with. Dallas has a lot of very, very wealthy people and a lot of very, very pool people in a way that Plano or Frisco just don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeVilley View Post
The following analogy isn't perfect, but this is how I see it:

The City of Dallas is a steak restaurant that wants to create a safe and inviting dining experience. No one is saying its the best steak around, but they serve steak. There is a live band for entertainment, some cleaning staff, and some medical staff on standby in case someone chokes.

The surrounding cities sell hamburgers and they also want to create a safe and inviting dining experience. Some of those cities have higher quality hamburgers some don't; some have waitstaff some dont. Some have live bands, some just have TVs on the wall playing Garth Brooks videos etc.

I understand the price of beef is rising for everyone, steak and hamburger, and that the City of Dallas should try to retain its customers, maybe offer a coupon here or there, or cutback on some of the services it provides to keep things going. But why would they spend a bunch of money on figuring out how to sell hamburgers to a table of customers that could be ordering steak? Why is the City spending current revenue dollars on a plan to guarantee they receive less revenue dollars in the future?
If you understand why they should try to retain their customers, why are you asking why they should try to retain their customers?

And I'm not defending this specific plan, just the idea that big cities have a vested interest in ensuring affordable housing.
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Old 05-05-2022, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Dallas
2,413 posts, read 3,460,323 times
Reputation: 4129
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert648 View Post
None of the above bullet points is going to help make housing more affordable if it's nearly impossible to get something built.

There's not a single element of that plan that involves a concrete, realistic plan to get more housing built at a realistic cost on a realistic timeline. That whole thing's just a bunch of bureaucratic word salad in the absence of housing being put in the ground.
I pretty much agree with this. Dallas needs to do better with it’s permitting process and allow more density in high demand areas. Attracting more jobs in or near downtown would also be great for south Dallas residents.
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Old 05-05-2022, 04:23 PM
 
1,336 posts, read 1,032,880 times
Reputation: 1169
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeVilley View Post
Ok, I understand where you're coming from better now. But the suburban cities don't put forth such initiatives to make living their more affordable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
Because most of the suburbs are far more economically homogeneous than the city of Dallas is. There have much less of a housing affordability issue to contend with. Dallas has a lot of very, very wealthy people and a lot of very, very pool people in a way that Plano or Frisco just don't.
Do you not consider McKinney a suburb? People were arguing a while back that county seats typically put in these initiatives. Dallas is also a county seat. I would not be surprised if Denton and Fort Worth were doing the same things.
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Old 05-05-2022, 04:31 PM
 
5,683 posts, read 4,089,405 times
Reputation: 7401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard123 View Post
Do you not consider McKinney a suburb? People were arguing a while back that county seats typically put in these initiatives. Dallas is also a county seat. I would not be surprised if Denton and Fort Worth were doing the same things.
McKinney is a suburb. Keep in mind that I didn't say suburbs don't do these things....the other poster did. I was simply commenting on why it seems large core cities tend to do them more.
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Old 05-06-2022, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Irving, TX
692 posts, read 848,396 times
Reputation: 1173
Irving has gotten to that ugly point where half the city didn't have a grocery store worth the name until a month ago (and that only bc it was finally turned into a political issue), and the other half is mixed between working class people desperately trying to afford rent vs upper-middle-class semi-urbanites enjoying every amenity City Hall can throw at the Las Colinas area. And for the record, I have nothing against the latter group. Las Colinas is nice.

But we have outdated working-class starter houses going for what used to Coppell prices just a couple years ago. Granted, sympathy for the median-income types on this board has never been precisely high, but what that's going to do to our demographics as people who want to kids (let alone afford an apartment on a starter salary) have to go elsewhere is going to be ugly.
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Old 05-06-2022, 05:17 PM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,747,590 times
Reputation: 6015
Quote:
Originally Posted by happycrow View Post
Irving has gotten to that ugly point where half the city didn't have a grocery store worth the name until a month ago (and that only bc it was finally turned into a political issue), and the other half is mixed between working class people desperately trying to afford rent vs upper-middle-class semi-urbanites enjoying every amenity City Hall can throw at the Las Colinas area. And for the record, I have nothing against the latter group. Las Colinas is nice.

But we have outdated working-class starter houses going for what used to Coppell prices just a couple years ago. Granted, sympathy for the median-income types on this board has never been precisely high, but what that's going to do to our demographics as people who want to kids (let alone afford an apartment on a starter salary) have to go elsewhere is going to be ugly.
While that is an issue, but it's not an issue that can be solved by putting low income apartments in Las Colinas. Las Colinas is simply too expensive for any housing stock there to be in "affordable" territory. I imagine City Hall is throwing every amenity it can afford at Las Colinas because Las Colinas is a cash cow.

Just like we're not going to solve the housing affordability crisis by putting low income apartments in Preston Hollow or University Park.
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