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Its funny you mention this, I was randomly on the Houston forum and I was struck by the lack of private school posts. I think they have one waitlist thread with a grand total of 6 replies
Yes, thank you, that would be my lonely post in the Houston forum…
I’ve been lurking the Dallas forums on private schools because they are so much more interesting and would have to agree with what @menardmq is saying.
It really is important to take a step back and see what works for each individual child. Not keep up with your best friends money moves.
I'm not questioning CF's integrity only her semi-neurotic take on education and future success prospects. The Atlantic gave her the space.
Economics tells us everything important.
You are just wrong about OECD countries. The OECD publishes something called the, "Better Life Index." The US finishes roughly on par with Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, The Netherlands and some others and most importantly ahead of all of the big Euro/OECD countries....UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Korea etc.
With respect millennials, and increasingly Zoomers, screaming is nothing new. The yield is simple. The bottom socio-economic half of millennials, more men from the group than women FWIIW, are the worst performing large generational sub-cadre in the history of our country.
Eh, BLI uses a lot softer data, in particular self-assessed quantitative measures. E.g., USA scores decently on the BLI health category because Americans self-reporting of their how healthy they feel ranks second out of 41 countries but we know that quantitive, hard data component ranks the USA as 29 out of 41 in the OECD. When focused on hard data, the USA clearly lacks OECD peers in most quality of life measures.
You are far too dismissive of the angst that people are reporting on these issues. We’re on the heels of an awful college admissions scandal which revealed not just unfair influence but outright illegal activity (RICO to use your terms—and the schools didn’t get shut down and the parents didn’t leave the system). What was shocking was not that privileged people were using their influence to benefit their children. That’s a story as old as time. Nor was it shocking that some actress may be so disconnected from reality thet she thought it was okay. But when the global head of major law firm practice group is putting his bar license and multimillion career on the line and risking irreplaceable jobs, that’s taking things to a completely different level than was previously appreciated.
While I condemn their actions, I also recognize the conditions that led them to making bad decisions. The applicant pool for these spots has grown exponentially but the number of seats haven’t. We’re a far cry from the days when JFK’s Harvard admission essay simply said “I’d like to be a Harvard man like my father.” As the math gets tighter and tighter, parents will stretch further and further. In the worst cases, they’ll cross a line they shouldn’t be cross.
DFW has grown 20% since your last kid probably went through the private school admissions. The seats at these schools haven’t grown. We live in an environment where simply going to POP, St. Monica, St. Rita, St. TA or CTK is no longer enough to ensure admittance to a Catholic high school (let alone at Jesuit). Indeed, all of those schools have had a measurable group of boys completely shut out at Catholic high schools in recent cycles. Something that would have been unheard of ten years ago. I’ve heard from second hand sources that JPII is enrolling a non-negligible percentage of students from Highland Park/UP. While the numbers are still small, if true, that’s a brutal commute any way you try to do it and it speaks to how tight admissions are right now.
The elite schools are reporting record breaking applicant numbers and the highest levels of qualifications they’ve ever seen. You may have a social darwinism perspective of it all that in any system there will be winners and losers, but that’s a much easier position to take when you’ve already won.
This is just a microcosm of what has happened at the university level and rather than being defensive and dismissive of concerns, you should take your own advice to Menard and be more constructive.
****
I haven’t seen schools push medicalization to the extent that that Menard claims, but I saw it happen to two kids. So I won’t say it’s impossible.
If the private school landscape around here was as broadly and consistently negative as you imply and outright claim...
You've chosen again to completely gloss over and stick your fingers in your ears to anything positive I've said. For instance, in this thread I've said:
Congratulations on a great outcome
I've been party to congratulating families on ivy leauge and academy placements.
I love that you've had a great outcome, and so many families do.
Time and experience has taught me that yes, private schools are awesome, but...
Quote:
... they'd all be out of business and in danger of RICO prosecution.
Funny you mention that. you do realize that there has been significant legal issues around collusion between private schools, correct? Collusion around tuition and admissions. You wouldn't know that because of course this is seedy underbelly stuff that never sees the light of day. But private school governance addresses this sort of stuff these days at the highest levels. There were some dark days in the past for some private schools.
Quote:
some of the richest people in the country and world send their kids to and/or invest in local private schools
Oh my sweet summer child. If you only knew how fundraising "works" - there is quid-pro-quo in every aspect of fundraising, and some of it is WILD stuff. If you think Melinda Gate's grandchildren or distance cousins or whoever even remotely associated with that family isn't treated differently well....
Anyway, you seem laser focused on the negatives that I present as some of the real world issues, like I personally attacked your decision to spend the money you did. And as I've pointed out, a lot of the more "vocal" parents that sing the praises of this process just can't stand the uncomfortable truths when you dropped hundreds of thousands of dollars into the system. You will very rarely see buyers remorse in this system - it's designed that way.
Your experiences are fantastic. But you neglect to realize that a LOT of parents shut up and color as you've probably done 100 times when it comes to this process, because at the end of the day for a LOT of people, it comes down to the elitism and social aspects that come with elite private schools, and not always the outcomes. You yourself alluded to this in a different thread about St Marks!
If the private school landscape around here was as broadly and consistently negative as you imply and outright claim...
You've chosen again to completely gloss over and stick your fingers in your ears to anything positive I've said. For instance, in this thread I've said:
Congratulations on a great outcome
I've been party to congratulating families on ivy leauge and academy placements.
I love that you've had a great outcome, and so many families do.
Time and experience has taught me that yes, private schools are awesome, but...
Quote:
... they'd all be out of business and in danger of RICO prosecution.
Funny you mention that. you do realize that there has been significant legal issues around collusion between private schools, correct? Collusion around tuition and admissions. You wouldn't know that because of course this is seedy underbelly stuff that never sees the light of day. But private school governance addresses this sort of stuff these days at the highest levels. There were some dark days in the past for some private schools.
Quote:
some of the richest people in the country and world send their kids to and/or invest in local private schools
Oh my sweet summer child. If you only knew how fundraising "works" - there is quid-pro-quo in every aspect of fundraising, and some of it is WILD stuff. If you think Melinda Gate's grandchildren or distance cousins or whoever even remotely associated with that family isn't treated differently well.... oh boy we could spend hours on this topic alone.
Anyway, you seem laser focused on the negatives that I present as some of the real world issues, like I personally attacked your decision to spend the money you did. And as I've pointed out, a lot of the more "vocal" parents that sing the praises of this process just can't stand the uncomfortable truths when you dropped hundreds of thousands of dollars into the system. You will very rarely see buyers remorse in this system - it's a fine tuned machine designed that way.
Your experiences are fantastic. But you neglect to realize that a LOT of parents shut up and color as you've probably done 100 times when it comes to this process, because at the end of the day for a LOT of people, it comes down to the elitism and social aspects that come with elite private schools, and not always the outcomes. You yourself alluded to this in a different thread about St Marks LOL!
Eh, BLI uses a lot softer data, in particular self-assessed quantitative measures. E.g., USA scores decently on the BLI health category because Americans self-reporting of their how healthy they feel ranks second out of 41 countries but we know that quantitive, hard data component ranks the USA as 29 out of 41 in the OECD. When focused on hard data, the USA clearly lacks OECD peers in most quality of life measures.
You are far too dismissive of the angst that people are reporting on these issues. We’re on the heels of an awful college admissions scandal which revealed not just unfair influence but outright illegal activity (RICO to use your terms—and the schools didn’t get shut down and the parents didn’t leave the system). What was shocking was not that privileged people were using their influence to benefit their children. That’s a story as old as time. Nor was it shocking that some actress may be so disconnected from reality thet she thought it was okay. But when the global head of major law firm practice group is putting his bar license and multimillion career on the line and risking irreplaceable jobs, that’s taking things to a completely different level than was previously appreciated.
While I condemn their actions, I also recognize the conditions that led them to making bad decisions. The applicant pool for these spots has grown exponentially but the number of seats haven’t. We’re a far cry from the days when JFK’s Harvard admission essay simply said “I’d like to be a Harvard man like my father.” As the math gets tighter and tighter, parents will stretch further and further. In the worst cases, they’ll cross a line they shouldn’t be cross.
DFW has grown 20% since your last kid probably went through the private school admissions. The seats at these schools haven’t grown. We live in an environment where simply going to POP, St. Monica, St. Rita, St. TA or CTK is no longer enough to ensure admittance to a Catholic high school (let alone at Jesuit). Indeed, all of those schools have had a measurable group of boys completely shut out at Catholic high schools in recent cycles. Something that would have been unheard of ten years ago. I’ve heard from second hand sources that JPII is enrolling a non-negligible percentage of students from Highland Park/UP. While the numbers are still small, if true, that’s a brutal commute any way you try to do it and it speaks to how tight admissions are right now.
The elite schools are reporting record breaking applicant numbers and the highest levels of qualifications they’ve ever seen. You may have a social darwinism perspective of it all that in any system there will be winners and losers, but that’s a much easier position to take when you’ve already won.
This is just a microcosm of what has happened at the university level and rather than being defensive and dismissive of concerns, you should take your own advice to Menard and be more constructive.
****
I haven’t seen schools push medicalization to the extent that that Menard claims, but I saw it happen to two kids. So I won’t say it’s impossible.
Well, similar hard data pre-covid claimed Italy had the best medical system on Earth, we know what sham that turned out to be. Americans are fat, drug addled, sedentary, diabetic etc. to degrees other first world countries don't see. Men from your generation are such prolific drug abusers their death toll is noticeably shortening overall life expectancy in The US.
I didn't cheat my kids into college. A grossly overwhelming majority of other parents don't either......outliers are just that outliers. IMO fixating on outliers isn't healthy.
JFK could have written his Harvard essay on the back of a Cracker Jacks box and he would have gotten in.
So far as private school slots around here - I tend to agree with you some of the big names should expand or expect new competition.
So far as morphing that logic onto the college landscape I don't buy it. Across the country we have significantly fewer college students enrolled now than in 2010.
The medicalization thing is everywhere. Several of my daughter's current med. school friends take Adderall.
I'm not defensive. Instead we simply disagree per these topics, mostly anyway.
DFW has grown 20% since your last kid probably went through the private school admissions. The seats at these schools haven’t grown.
The seats have not, and may not, grow at some of the established schools, but Compass School of Texas is opening next year on Meadowbrook's campus. They will start as PreK-4 and eventually become a PreK-8 school. Their staff and board are full of individuals who come with years of past experience at Dallas' established private schools. They saw a need and are creating a solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarNorDFW
I haven’t seen schools push medicalization to the extent that that Menard claims, but I saw it happen to two kids. So I won’t say it’s impossible.
We just went through the application process with our oldest for PreK, and the fact that we were applying came up with our Pediatrician. She cautioned about a certain, small, handful of schools in which her patient's parents ask for ADHD meds for their children without an ADHD diagnosis so that they will be more focused. She was genuinely alarmed about the lengths some parents are willing to take to keep their children enrolled in schools that may not be the best fit. While this is anecdotal, she has 3 sons at two different private schools and her practice is in the heart of the private school corridor, so I feel that the doctors in this practice see their fair share of this behavior.
It is very easy to say that Larla and Johnny would have been just fine at our zoned public school after the fact, but that’s a hell of gamble to take on the front end. All else being equal, how many people would really be able to say “I’ll decline Harvard because I’ll be just fine going to Texas Tech”?
I don't have a dog in this hunt because as things are now, we can't afford to send our kids to private school no matter how extraordinary I KNOW they are. So we're sticking with good public schools. However, I am sort of one of the people who can say they declined a prestigous school in lieu of a public. I got into one of the Seven Sisters colleges coming from my public high school that is practically in the 'hood in Houston, but I had to decline for financial reasons. However, my public university education served me just fine in grad school on the east coast, where I stacked up equal or better to my classmates from places like Cornell, Smith, and Dartmouth. Experience has taught me that a motivated student can do well no matter where they are placed and that expensive and prestigious doesn't necessarily lead to a better outcome.
Having applied and now sending two kids - a boy and girl to Tier 1 privates (different schools) in Dallas, I want to share my experiences.
We are an immigrant family with no connections to either school. Our kids went to public schools and after seeing how the were not challenged even in accelerated classes, I decided to try for private. It is a completely different way of schooling in all aspects. The approach is the best I've seen and could imagine for my children. My kids worked really really hard to get into the schools of their choice and we worked hard as a family, foregoing other activities and events for this goal. We didn't use any outside tutors or counselors. I bought the ISEE prep book and we worked through each of the problems together. We practiced the ISEE essays (I don't even know if they are read). Of course my kids got tired, but they continued to prep, even after sports and music every evening. It was this prep that showed me that my kids would be prepared for a competitive school and our family would make trade-offs when school assignments threaten a planned event or vacation. I know families that went on a two week vacation before their child took the ISEE and/or before apps where due and it didn't work out. Maybe it could but we didn't take any chances.
The application process was a nightmare. I didn't know if my kids had a chance. Both my kids have summer birthdays and very young in their classes since there is a lot of red-shirting from my observations. Also, our public school district is just awful - they would not allow teachers to provide any evaluations for the private school application. They waited forever to send the transcript. They made everything so difficult because they don't care about kids - they only care about receiving per student funding from the state to keep teachers who should have left teaching long ago employed. I was tired of my kids watching YouTube in classrooms (yes, the teacher just used YT instead of teaching more than half the time) in lieu of teacher engagement and peer dialogue. The curriculum was not aligned to what I believe are critical thinking and analytical skills required for the problems our children will need to solve and succeed. I'm not suggesting that every public school is this way, but this is my experience and why private school is important to me. My goal is not Ivy, it is about the best learning environment for young minds.
As a family, we make lots of sacrifices for our kids, including the hefty tuition and we do not receive ANY money from either schools. Part of it is likely income (we own our home too - nothing grand but a nice home in a good neighborhood). It was not always this way. I saved every penny while in college - rarely ate out, and spent nothing except on books, room & board. After graduation, I worked a few years then headed to grad school. I never received a school scholarship for undergrad or grad school and had over six figures in student debt. I saved everything I made and repaid all my student loans well before I had kids. For entertainment, you'll find me looking for "free stuff to do with kids" and eating out only on occasion. We visit the library a lot. We read, listen to music, go to the park, have picnics. It's not for everybody, but it has given our family the ability to send our kids to private school and eventually college.
In the end, I am happy with how things turned out. However, it was important to me that my children were in the school that was best for them - not just the top Dallas schools. I want them to succeed because school is a happy place that suits their learning style. I want them to be challenged but not crushed. I will see how things eventually turn out.
I wanted to share this because I think many out there are wondering what it takes and what matters. All I can say is I really don't know. However, our family had a singular goal and we worked towards it in many aspects - finances, academics, experiences. I don't think any admissions committee would ever know this about my family's background because its simply not asked nor is it in their calculus.
I'll be going through the entire process again with my youngest soon so see some of you around this forum next year.
Last edited by DalGalHere; 04-18-2023 at 10:03 PM..
I just joined this forum and have found it extremely informative to someone like me who hasn't studied in the US.
My son, an 8th has been at a Charter school in Northern Dallas Suburb for over 5 years. For his high school we were looking at a few options that included staying out in his current school, getting into a Public school, or look at options for private school.
I was not even considering private schools in Dallas as they are far from where I live, if you take into account the growth in traffic on the North Dallas Parkway. I wasn't even aware of the SSAT and ISEE tests till a friend of mine told me about it in March this year.
I had a lot of questions in my mind:
1) Is the money spent on Private School worth it?
2) Should I rather spend the money on a good college?
I came to the conclusion that High School probably is the time to give my son the best education possible, because and waiting for the college perhaps will be too late.
I knew that getting into SMS would be a really tough proposition, but I wanted to at-least have my son give it a shot. I also was aware that he needed to want it, not just me.
Luckily my son liked what he saw at SMS during his shadowing and interview and he began to prepare earnestly. With me as his mathematics coach, he started spending an hour before school testing , practicing and spending time to understand hard concepts.
While in the past we would end up fighting whenever I taught him math, something great happened. My son began to see what I was trying to tell him, finding easier ways to solve problems, understand concepts so that he could adjust to tweaks in questions that are often inserted into competitive tests.
Over 4 months our relationship as a coach/ student grew stronger. He understood the nuances of testing in a competitive exam and got better everyday.
He finally took his ISEE on the 16th Dec and I am already very proud of him. I don't really care how much he scores and whether he get into SMS or Greenhill, because my son now knows that planning, hard work and sacrifice are needed being successful at anything in life.
The experience of applying to SMS in itself was a great one.
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Application to Private Schools at Dallas
