Billingsley Development at 121 & 75

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by CMC_TX

Are you kidding? Allen can’t seem to approve new apartments fast enough. Between watters creek, the new Stacy green area and pretty much every stretch of Watters from Bethany to the HWY it’s massive apartments in Allen

Collin County and the metro area as a whole is being overrun with apartments. Rents are going down, and they'll probably be going down a lot more over the next few years with the huge glut of apartment construction underway. It's good to have some, and I'm no fan of country living or McMansion excesses, but it's long past time to stop. I thought it was just a problem for McKinney, but I see it's actually everywhere.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

Collin County and the metro area as a whole is being overrun with apartments. Rents are going down, and they'll probably be going down a lot more over the next few years with the huge glut of apartment construction underway. It's good to have some, and I'm no fan of country living or McMansion excesses, but it's long past time to stop. I thought it was just a problem for McKinney, but I see it's actually everywhere.

Why is CityData so full of contemptuous suburbanites who think government (or somebody) has to limit housing for renters, and often for "entry-level" buyers as well, but having unlimited upscale for-sale housing is always A-OK (at least as long as it's not high-rise condos, because "tall is bad")?

[ilovepizza1975]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Why is CityData so full of contemptuous suburbanites who think government (or somebody) has to limit housing for renters, and often for "entry-level" buyers as well, but having unlimited upscale for-sale housing is always A-OK (at least as long as it's not high-rise condos, because "tall is bad")?

Good question.

People automatically associate multifamily housing with run-down areas, crime, etc.

Over 10 years ago there was an article (I believe it was originally in The Atlantic) that described American suburbs as a giant Ponzi scheme. They made some excellent arguments.

I found some references to it here:

https://www.businessinsider.com/stro...uburbs-2011-10

Essentially the argument goes that the only way that suburbs can keep up with their infrastructure is to densify to increase tax revenue. The way suburbs choose to do that is building apartments.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by ilovepizza1975

Good question.

People automatically associate multifamily housing with run-down areas, crime, etc.

Over 10 years ago there was an article (I believe it was originally in The Atlantic) that described American suburbs as a giant Ponzi scheme. They made some excellent arguments.

I found some references to it here:

https://www.businessinsider.com/stro...uburbs-2011-10

Essentially the argument goes that the only way that suburbs can keep up with their infrastructure is to densify to increase tax revenue. The way suburbs choose to do that is building apartments.

Suburbs also usually want retail and services in their community. The workers at those places are often not in a financial or practical position to buy a home there. So, is the message, "we want to you work here for us, but please don't live here"?

Similarly (maybe more so in the Houston forum), people tend to be biased against for-sale homes that are attainable for people who make middle class incomes (say up to $100K, or maybe up to $125K in Collin County). Especially if they're zoned to the same schools as homes that are higher-priced.

[NP78]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Suburbs also usually want retail and services in their community. The workers at those places are often not in a financial or practical position to buy a home there. So, is the message, "we want to you work here for us, but please don't live here"?

I think that is the message than many of the posters you refer to would like to send. Of course, the actual suburbs themselves, with a few exceptions, have generally followed the opposite path with extensive development of multi-family housing and retail and business development.

[ilovepizza1975]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Suburbs also usually want retail and services in their community. The workers at those places are often not in a financial or practical position to buy a home there. So, is the message, "we want to you work here for us, but please don't live here"?

Similarly (maybe more so in the Houston forum), people tend to be biased against for-sale homes that are attainable for people who make middle class incomes (say up to $100K, or maybe up to $125K in Collin County). Especially if they're zoned to the same schools as homes that are higher-priced.

All good points.

Plano has approved a lot of multifamily housing and also has DART service. Some people think that it has made it "run down" but honestly it's still better than some suburbs of a similar vintage (FB, Garland, Mesquite, parts of Carrollton, etc).

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by NP78

I think that is the message than many of the posters you refer to would like to send. Of course, the actual suburbs themselves, with a few exceptions, have generally followed the opposite path with extensive development of multi-family housing and retail and business development.

I'm certainly glad that's the case. And of course, a successful suburb will naturally densify and gentrify as land / location becomes more valuable; lot sizes shrink, more vertical construction becomes necessary to justify land purchase, vertical mixed-use becomes more viable, etc. etc. Large-lot SFD and one-story retail with generous surface parking becomes financially difficult to pencil out.

I don't want to promote the idea that new rental or multifamily housing is necessarily affordable to low / mod income renters, however. New large-scale apartments generally have to come in at or near the top of the market, otherwise the numbers don't work. So, you need ways to subsidize new rental apartment complex construction or less capital-intensive products like ADUs and "plexes" (duplex / triplex / quadplex etc.) if you're trying to be affordable for retail-type workers.