Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That would be more specific but really the fact remains that if you want to fix that misinformation perhaps the most effective way would be to go explain to those residents and businesses that believe they reside in Oak Cliff that they do not. Historically the city of Oak Cliff had defined boundaries but the truth is almost any neighborhood with as broad of a connotation as Oak Cliff really only has colloquial boundaries. East Dallas, Pleasant Grove, West Dallas, South Dallas all refer to large areas but there boundaries are debatable and different people in the city even very well informed people would probably have different understandings of the exact borders of them. I believe that its worth knowing the history of the neighborhood and its origins but the reality of the situation is Oak Cliff has expanded as a region over time and saying that DMN is being irresponsible for calling that area Oak Cliff is silly. They don't need to put a footnote on every article and explain that historically this was not known as Oak Cliff but has been largely understood to be Oak Cliff for some time. Now if you're suggesting that the application of the name "Oak Cliff" to certain undesirable areas south of the trinity is a DMN conspiracy I'd be interested to hear the case
That would be more specific but really the fact remains that if you want to fix that misinformation perhaps the most effective way would be to go explain to those residents and businesses that believe they reside in Oak Cliff that they do not. Historically the city of Oak Cliff had defined boundaries but the truth is almost any neighborhood with as broad of a connotation as Oak Cliff really only has colloquial boundaries. East Dallas, Pleasant Grove, West Dallas, South Dallas all refer to large areas but there boundaries are debatable and different people in the city even very well informed people would probably have different understandings of the exact borders of them. I believe that its worth knowing the history of the neighborhood and its origins but the reality of the situation is Oak Cliff has expanded as a region over time and saying that DMN is being irresponsible for calling that area Oak Cliff is silly. They don't need to put a footnote on every article and explain that historically this was not known as Oak Cliff but has been largely understood to be Oak Cliff for some time. Now if you're suggesting that the application of the name "Oak Cliff" to certain undesirable areas south of the trinity is a DMN conspiracy I'd be interested to hear the case
Oak Cliff has not expanded as a region in any real way, just in perception. Perceptions don't always equate with reality. People used to perceive that the earth was flat. The DMN and others contributed to the idea that everything south of I-30 is a part of Oak Cliff. Years of sloppy reporting and a disregard for the truth are the source of the problem. The DMN doesn't need to footnote every article to stop the misinformation. They could simply start reporting things based on geographic location and/or referring to the name of the specific neighborhood. It would be much more accurate and descriptive for them to report this event as having occurred in neighborhood "X" of SE Dallas.
And, please.....who said anything about a conspiracy theory? If you carelessly misinform enough people over a long enough period of time, they will come to believe that black is white and that up is down.
Last edited by Dallas native; 02-14-2009 at 06:27 PM..
Reason: error
its intriguing that you think the people who live in Highland Hills believe they live in Oak Cliff because the DMN tells them so. No perceptions don't always equate with reality but at what point do the perceptions of the majority become the accepted reality? And if its geographic descriptions you want then you would have to change the considered boundaries of other neighborhoods. South Dallas would have to stop being south dallas and oak cliff could become south dallas and southwest dallas, seem reasonable? and i'm not sure that the earth is flat analogy works at all.
its intriguing that you think the people who live in Highland Hills believe they live in Oak Cliff because the DMN tells them so. No perceptions don't always equate with reality but at what point do the perceptions of the majority become the accepted reality? And if its geographic descriptions you want then you would have to change the considered boundaries of other neighborhoods. South Dallas would have to stop being south dallas and oak cliff could become south dallas and southwest dallas, seem reasonable? and i'm not sure that the earth is flat analogy works at all.
Do you work for Belo?
What you seem to be advocating is that I should acquiese to erroneous information that has been perpetuated on this city for many decades just because it has become an "accepted" reality by many. I agree that it has become a de facto truth for a majority of Dallasites and, very understandably, for newcomers to Dallas. Honestly, it is a subtle distinction for many people throughout the DFW area (the southern half of Dallas included). Nevertheless, it is misinformation and that has had negative ramifications for the entire southern half of the city. Similarly, it is also an accepted reality by many people on the East and West coasts that the City of Dallas is a bastion for big haired, right wing, gun toting, pick-up driving, religious fanatics. That perception keeps some people from moving here. Should we just accept that too and do nothing to correct that idea?
By reporting that all things bad in the southern half of the city occurred in some part of Oak Cliff, the DMN taints the image of Oak Cliff and other desirable neighborhoods in the southern half of Dallas, particularly SW Dallas. Imagine that everything north of I-30 was, through decades of sloppy reporting and other influences, perceived to be Preston Hollow (also a formerly independent city that was annexed into Dallas). Can you visualize a headline about a shooting in Fair Oaks such as "Another Murder in NE Preston Hollow". Wouldn't that be detrimental to the image of Preston Hollow? That's what happened to Oak Cliff (not to imply that the two neighborhoods are similar).
I didn't say that I think the people who live in any particular neighborhood believe that they live in Oak Cliff ONLY because the DMN encourages that mindset. There are additional culprits. What I do know is that the DMN and other institutions have recklessly perpetuated the myth that everything below I-30 is in the OC. That affects the image, property values and future development possibilities of every neighborhood in the southern half of the city. A large percentage of SE Dallas really is undesirable by many standards. By lumping it together with Oak Cliff and, by extension, SW Dallas, a big unflattering picture is painted of the entire southern sector. That includes highly desirable sections of SW Dallas such as Kessler Park, Stevens Park, Winnetka Hts., Wynnewood North, et al........ Perception does NOT equate to REALITY regardless of how ingrained that perception may be. Can you define the official boudaries of the OC? If you can, it is not because there really are "official" boundaries, but because you perceive them to be that way. Where did that perception come from? I think the DMN is a major contributor.
I don't have a problem with correctly stating the boundaries of any neighborhood as long as it is REALITY based. Oak Cliff IS in the southern half of the city. But it would be more accurate for the DMN to state that it is one of many neighborhoods in the SW quadrant of the City of Dallas. Why can't the DMN report a story in Winnetka Hts., for example, as occurring in the Winnetka Hts. section of SW Dallas? Why can't they report the story about which this thread originated as having occurred in the Highland Hills section of SE Dallas? Is that so difficult? It is not very descriptive to report anything bad that happens in the southern half of the city by simply saying that it occurred in South Dallas or in some part of Oak Cliff. By eliminating the generalizations, perhaps the DMN could make a positive contribution to the future of many southern sector neighborhoods. That would also be responsible journalism.
Last edited by Dallas native; 02-15-2009 at 03:11 AM..
Reason: error
Oak Cliff police blotter: Oak Cliff Police Blotter | Articles & Archives | Oak Cliff News serving the communities of Oak Cliff, Kessler Park, Winnetka Heights, Stevens Park, and the Bishop Arts District (http://www.peoplenewspapers.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publicatio ns%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F7 91&tier=4&id=E83810807F6B4D44B2020B3BE0A1CE8B&AudI D=3E017068694948C3BE75FD51480D8A7D - broken link)
[SIZE=5]Oak Cliff Police Blotter
[/SIZE][CENTER]Skulduggery
Of The Week: Carrying Protection
On Jan. 29, a thief tried to take two boxes of condoms worth $41.98 from a CVS in the 2300 block of West
Illinois Avenue by placing them under a jacket.[/CENTER]
26 MONDAY
At 6:30 a.m., a $300 ceiling television screen was stolen from a vehicle parked in the 2100 block of McAdams Avenue.
Sometime between 8 a.m. and 11:50 a.m., two people broke the front and rear passenger doors of a vehicle in the 2100 block of Colorado Boulevard.
Between 9:45 a.m. and 10 a.m., a $200 suitcase, $250 worth of pants, $250 worth of dress shirts, $30 worth of underwear, $30 worth of socks, $30 worth of T-shirts, a $500 computer hard drive, and a $100 electric razor were stolen from a vehicle in the 500 block of South Beckley Avenue.
At noon, a maroon car drove through a fence and hit a 1998 Cavalier in the 200 block of South Ewing Avenue. The driver of the maroon car did not stop.
At 1 p.m., a 1994 Dodge pickup was stolen from an auto repair shop in the 300 block of East Jefferson Boulevard.
At 3:50 p.m., a person was reported as a runaway when he or she left his or her house in the 1600 block of McAdams
Avenue. nAt 4 p.m., burglars stole a $2,000 50-inch television from a home in the 120 block of North Denver Street.
At 4:50 p.m., Monica Jimenez, 29, was arrested for stealing mozzarella cheese worth $4.35 and ricotta cheese worth $5.19 from a grocery store in the 2100 block of Fort Worth Avenue.
27 TUESDAY
At 7:40 a.m., a thief stole $5.39 worth of muenster cheese, $6.71 worth of pepper turkey, $9.30 worth of honey ham, and $6.22 worth of cheddar cheese from a grocery store in the 2100 block of Fort Worth Avenue.
At 8:30 a.m., a vandal tampered with some apartment screens, causing $50 worth of damage, in the 2300 block of Anzio Drive.
At 9:30 a.m., a person attempted suicide by taking pills at his or her residence in the 1800 block of West Illinois Avenue.
Sometime between 5 p.m. on Jan. 27 and 7 a.m. on Jan. 28, a person threw a rock through the front glass door of a medical clinic in the 300 block of North Ewing Avenue.
At 7:40 p.m., burglars stole a $40 DVD player and a collage of pictures worth $125 from an apartment in the 2600 block of Creative Place.
28 WEDNESDAY
At 11:50 a.m., a hit-and-run accident occurred in the 300 block of West Jefferson Boulevard.
Sometime between 3 p.m. on Jan. 28 and 10 a.m. on Jan. 31, a 1998 Toyota Avalon was stolen from the alley in the 300 block of West Jefferson Boulevard. nSometime between 5 p.m. on Jan.
28 and 6:30 a.m. on Jan. 29, a $60 vice, a $700 paint sprayer, a $150 copper wire, $800 worth of miscellaneous hand tools, $200 worth of miscellaneous garden tools, and a $1,000 glass top stove were stolen from a home in the 800 block of Haines Avenue.
29 THURSDAY
At 2:33 p.m., a thief stole $15 worth of aluminum cans from a backyard in the 2600 block of Nicholson Drive.
At 3 p.m., $915.43 worth of blades, fuses, scrapers, and staplers were stolen from a hardware store in the 2600 block of Fort Worth Avenue.
Sometime between 8:30 p.m. on Jan. 29 and 8:20 a.m. on Jan. 30, $89 worth of damage was done to a vehicle’s front window in the 2400 block of Bahama Drive.
At 10 p.m., an aggravated assault by gunpoint was reported in the 2500 block of Alpaca Pass.
At 10 p.m., an interference involving child custody was reported in the 2500 block of Bahama Drive.
30 FRIDAY
At 11:15 a.m., an assault was reported at a school in the 100 block of South Beckley Avenue.
At 5:30 p.m., a $100 display rack was damaged in a dollar store in the 300 block of West Jefferson Boulevard.
At 5:45 p.m., a person was arrested for selling DVDs without the manufacturers’ names in the 400 block of West Jefferson Boulevard.
At 10:58 p.m., Juan Mandujano, 21, was arrested for punching a man in the 200 block of Melba Street.
31 SATURDAY
At 5:15 a.m., a $400 car radio, a $600 car stereo, $60 worth of clothes, a $100 car radio, a $100 baby car seat, $300 worth of CDs, and a $50 purse were stolen from three vehicles in the 600 block of West Illinois Avenue.
At 11:13 a.m., an alleged robbery took place at a home in the 100 block of North Denver Street. Nothing was stolen.
1 SUNDAY
At 2:15 a.m., a person presented a fraudulent ID to a police officer during a traffic stop in the 200 block of East Davis Street.
At 3 a.m., an aggravated assault including a deadly weapon occurred at a residence in the 800 block of North Crawford Street. No one was hurt.
At 5:30 a.m., a gun was shot at a vehicle in an apartment complex in the 700 block of Elsbeth Avenue.
At 11:15 a.m., an assault was reported at a residence in the 1600 block of McAdams Avenue.
At 7:22 p.m., a $120 air compresser, $370 worth of nail guns, a $100 chain saw, a $70 circular saw, and a $200 table saw were stolen from a vehicle in a parking lot in the 2600 block of Fort Worth Avenue.
2 MONDAY
At 1:30 a.m., an apartment door in the 300 block of East Ninth Street was damaged when someone kicked it.
I'm not sure what the point of displaying that info was, but thanks. At least OC People distinguishes between Oak Cliff, Kessler Park, Stevens Park, Winnetka Hts & Bishop Arts District. Of the 33 incidents, none of them occurred in KP, SP, WH or Bishop Arts. Some of them actually did occur in Oak Cliff. Quite a few occurred on Ft. Worth Ave north of I-30. Is that Oak Cliff now too? Since we're posting info on crime, following is some info on 17 incidents that occurred in the Park Cities (which is a smaller area than what Oak Cliff People reported on). I guess there is crime everywhere.
Park Cities Police Blotter | Articles & Archives | Park Cities News serving the communities of Highland Park, University Park, and Turtle Creek (http://www.peoplenewspapers.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publicatio ns%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F7 91&AudID=DA7D68F24889442D98449D08560D8327&tier=4&i d=D47B0F01BD224167A87FF1767CCE82D0 - broken link)
Last edited by Dallas native; 02-15-2009 at 01:25 PM..
Reason: change
no i do not work for belo and actually come from a family that was inhabiting Oak Cliff when it was just that. So let me get this straight, because areas that came to be known as oak cliff are low-income, higher-crime they should be stripped of that name? Old oak cliff has plenty of undesirable parts EVEN in beloved north oak cliff, wynnewood, winnetka. I think its full of phenomenal neighborhoods and I DO like your suggestion of giving more specific neighborhood names in articles. I think it would help the readership learn more about the areas of the city they live in, but its not gonna change the FACT that highland hills is now part of oak cliff and has been. i'm sorry that you don't like the trend that Oak Cliff expansion has taken but i think the time to act has come and passed. You're not going to convince people who have lived in an area for years that they need to change what they call their home unless the city is going to define neighborhood boundaries. It seems likely to me that the main culprit was people living in areas surrounding oak cliff describing themselves as living in oak cliff. Also, lets remember that many of the areas of oak cliff that you're describing as undesirable are themselves newer. That a new neighborhood was built surrounding oak cliff and so it bore the core neighborhoods name does not seem unusual or unfair or misinformed at all. it is also ignorant to say that everything south of I-30 is considered oakcliff because thats just a falsehood. South dallas, west dallas, pleasant grove, there are a number of areas that are not considered oak cliff south of I-30. And your Preston Hollow analogy falls on its face. The headline would read shooting in north dallas. because north dallas is the larger neighborhood. Would it be detrimental to north dallas? i dunno you tell me. that comparison is like saying a shooting in old east dallas be reported as lakewood. this doesn't occur. preston hollow and similarly lakewood are MUCH MUCH smaller than oak cliff. I agree that Oak Cliff does often seem to get portrayed in an unfair light, but that is because of a failure to acknowledge the areas diversity. It is a shame that Kessler Park, Stevens Park, etc. have become overshadowed by some of the worse areas that have changed the perception of Oak Cliff, but instead of trying to convince people that the bad areas aren't the REAL oak cliff, why not just say, yes, its a big neighborhood in a big city and therefore the area has its issues, but there are some VERY nice neighborhoods that in many ways are more desirable than the ones in North Dallas.
no i do not work for belo and actually come from a family that was inhabiting Oak Cliff when it was just that. So let me get this straight, because areas that came to be known as oak cliff are low-income, higher-crime they should be stripped of that name? Old oak cliff has plenty of undesirable parts EVEN in beloved north oak cliff, wynnewood, winnetka. I think its full of phenomenal neighborhoods and I DO like your suggestion of giving more specific neighborhood names in articles. I think it would help the readership learn more about the areas of the city they live in, but its not gonna change the FACT that highland hills is now part of oak cliff and has been. i'm sorry that you don't like the trend that Oak Cliff expansion has taken but i think the time to act has come and passed. You're not going to convince people who have lived in an area for years that they need to change what they call their home unless the city is going to define neighborhood boundaries. It seems likely to me that the main culprit was people living in areas surrounding oak cliff describing themselves as living in oak cliff. Also, lets remember that many of the areas of oak cliff that you're describing as undesirable are themselves newer. That a new neighborhood was built surrounding oak cliff and so it bore the core neighborhoods name does not seem unusual or unfair or misinformed at all. it is also ignorant to say that everything south of I-30 is considered oakcliff because thats just a falsehood. South dallas, west dallas, pleasant grove, there are a number of areas that are not considered oak cliff south of I-30. And your Preston Hollow analogy falls on its face. The headline would read shooting in north dallas. because north dallas is the larger neighborhood. Would it be detrimental to north dallas? i dunno you tell me. that comparison is like saying a shooting in old east dallas be reported as lakewood. this doesn't occur. preston hollow and similarly lakewood are MUCH MUCH smaller than oak cliff. I agree that Oak Cliff does often seem to get portrayed in an unfair light, but that is because of a failure to acknowledge the areas diversity. It is a shame that Kessler Park, Stevens Park, etc. have become overshadowed by some of the worse areas that have changed the perception of Oak Cliff, but instead of trying to convince people that the bad areas aren't the REAL oak cliff, why not just say, yes, its a big neighborhood in a big city and therefore the area has its issues, but there are some VERY nice neighborhoods that in many ways are more desirable than the ones in North Dallas.
Well we agree on some things and not on others. The bottom line for me is that the areas that you readily accept as being part of Oak Cliff were never officially part of Oak Cliff and I don't know how that status could have been conferred on them after the original City of OC was annexed into the City of Dallas in 1903. You've bought into the misinformation and I haven't. Thus your comment that Preston Hollow is much smaller than Oak Cliff. Well, it is if you believe what the media have portrayed through the years. They were not all that different in size if you look at the boundaries of each when they were unique incorporated areas independent of Dallas. That the boundaries of OC got stretched for many miles in three directions and the boundaries of Preston Hollow only got stretched for many blocks in the minds of many does not make those imaginary boundaries official.
It would certainly be easier to just leave the media on their own to continue to misinform. But, I prefer to be a part of the solution rather than passively perpetuate the problem. If the media would simply be diligent about reporting stories as having occurred in particular neighborhoods located in specific geographic parts of the city rather than lump everything south of I-30 together as "Oak Cliff" (and adding N, S, E or W does not mitigate the overall damage done), that would be a step in the right direction. Over time it might begin to diminish the damage that has been done to the image of many desirable neighborhoods south of I-30 due to their having been associated with other less desirable areas also south of I-30 and collectively labeled as one.
You really need to drive through Oak Cliff to see it for yourself. Yes, there are bad areas, but there are really, really nice areas as well. I think that the northern parts of Oak Cliff are some of the most scenic in Dallas; full of nice hills, trees, and beautiful houses. I would love to live in areas like Kessler Park and other neighborhoods down there. Some people tell others to stay away just because there are shady areas that border to the south. If it was really such a wasteland and war zone, do you think the people in the nicer neighborhoods would stay there?
I agree that Oak Cliff has nice houses. I teach at an exemplary school right here in Oak Cliff. The community takes pride in what they do have. Yes, some areas of Oak Cliff get a bad rep, but please don't dismiss the entire area
I agree that Oak Cliff has nice houses. I teach at an exemplary school right here in Oak Cliff. The community takes pride in what they do have. Yes, some areas of Oak Cliff get a bad rep, but please don't dismiss the entire area
THANK YOU! Thanks for reminding us that there are exemplary schools within the southern half of the city and for acknowledging the fact that there are nice neighborhoods there too. The problem is that the media has portrayed everything south of I-30 as being equally bad. As it happens, they have arbitrarily chosen to refer to the entire southern sector as "Oak Cliff" (they may add N, S, E or W for further edification, but it really does not matter). It makes no difference by what name they chose to call it. Labeling all places south collectively so as to infer that it is all one big ghetto is the root of problem. Socio-economically there is great diversity within the southern sector. Generally speaking, the SW quadrant is enormously different than the SE quadrant. Yet, the media has tended to treat them as though they were indisinguishable. It's all so arbitrary.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. At least OC People distinguishes between Oak Cliff, Kessler Park, Stevens Park, Winnetka Hts & Bishop Arts District. Of the 33 incidents, none of them occurred in KP, SP, WH or Bishop Arts. Some of them actually did occur in Oak Cliff. Quite a few occurred on Ft. Worth Ave north of I-30. Is that Oak Cliff now too? Since we're posting info on crime, following is some info on 17 incidents that occurred in the Park Cities (which is a smaller area than what Oak Cliff People reported on). I guess there is crime everywhere. 
.
