Should Plano and other cities ditch paying for DART? (Dallas: live, costs)

[momof2dfw]

Originally Posted by lh_newbie

Either learn the definition of "mostly" or stop posting here (I prefer the latter). Since when is 42% considered "mostly"?

Additionally, "made up of mostly families"... I am willing to bet that 100% of the people living in Plano have (or had) families.

Please spare us your Wiki-factoid posts.

I tried to rep you but I gotta spread it around.

[DaveG99]

Originally Posted by lh_newbie

So, if you have to transfer to a DART bus, it's not considered DART? You're saying if the train doesn't drop you off at the front door, you refuse to take a transfer. Transfers are less convenient, but are far better than walking "over a mile".

the time it would take to do that commute would be a large inconvenience and cut into my sleep time. I can make it from Legacy to my office in 26-27 minutes when I drive leaving at 6:15-6:30am. So to answer your question...YES I do refuse to make a transfer. Its just not worth the inconvenience. I'll keep on driving.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by DWong

People gotta stop drinking the hatorade.

Shalom my friend.

So you wonder why people find you obnoxious?

[AKgirlinCA]

I think possibly the OP is "stuck" in CA and upset that he can't live in Dallas. Therefore he tries to put Dallas down in any way possible, when it's a well known fact that CA is in absolute shambles and provides an awful quality of life for the middle class. I have seen his other posts trying to put Dallas down. The fact is, Dallas is one of the last cities in the country left that offers what it does. That is why everyone is moving there in droves. I only spent 3 days there last April and am convinced it's the place for me. Been researching it for well over a year. Soon as I'm done with school, we're headed out there. I am going to kiss the ground when I see the "exiting CA" sign.

[AKgirlinCA]

Oh, and as far as DART goes, even if ridership is in a low percentage right now, it's a damn good thing Dallas is THINKING AHEAD, something CA does not do, about it's infrastructure. Preparing for the increase in population. Maybe it's not getting used exponentially right now, but as the population continues to increase, and the suburbs grow farther out, many people will prefer to ride DART and it will already be in place, rather than being the next Los Angeles that never did anything to accommodate the massive population and sprawl, thus creating the worst traffic in the entire nation.

[DWong]

Originally Posted by AKgirlinCA

Oh, and as far as DART goes, even if ridership is in a low percentage right now, it's a damn good thing Dallas is THINKING AHEAD, something CA does not do, about it's infrastructure. Preparing for the increase in population. Maybe it's not getting used exponentially right now, but as the population continues to increase, and the suburbs grow farther out, many people will prefer to ride DART and it will already be in place, rather than being the next Los Angeles that never did anything to accommodate the massive population and sprawl, thus creating the worst traffic in the entire nation.

Oh quite the opposite, as dfw grows further out and less dense it will only become just the same as LA. Allthough LA has a very dense city, (3x that of Dallas) the outside cities are what have caused the low ridership in LA metro. Again one can not stress enough that dfw is growing 5x the rate on outlying cities than at it's core.

[awecelot]

Originally Posted by DWong

Again one can not stress enough that dfw is growing 5x the rate on outlying cities than at it's core.

Source?

[galore]

What boggles the mind is that some people are so cheap as to wish away an infrastructure project which is used by many (other) people just because it personally (or in some cases distant relatives) costs them a few CENTS that they get no use out of.

What's the alternative? Get those people who pack DART each day into cars and jam the roads even more? Have ticket prices go up 1000%?

You know, this is not socialism like you latently suggest but called civilization.

[W James III]

I am sure everyone knows something about the Dallas Transit System history but for those who don’t let me provide a little refresher course for you.


Years ago (20’s – 40’s) Dallas had one of the largest privately operated “public” transit systems in the nation. There were several different private transportation companies with trolley lines crossing every major street within the city of Dallas and other lines that spread to the then suburbs of Oak Cliff, Highland Park, etc. and even a line that went up as far north to Northwest Highway which was way out in the sticks at that time.








The north interurban line went from downtown Dallas as far as Denison and passed through Plano along the same lines that the DART light rail travels today. Yes passenger transit rail service in the form of trolley service is nothing new to Dallas or Plano. This service was apart and separate from the actual train rail passenger services like Santa Fee, Union Pacific, etc.

Dallas was being built with these “public modes” of transportation in mind and designing their neighborhoods with this in mind. Then overnight the entire country changed.

During the 1940’s General Motors began buying up these small transportation companies and trolley lines and quietly phasing the lines out and closing them so down so that they (GM) could sell more cars.

After WWII car sales increased as car loans were provided to soldiers for their service in the war. During the early 50’s there was a huge push by Detroit with its lobbyist to push a national highway system and to sell more cars, thus the turnpikes and interstate highways. This was not only about connecting the US but rather selling cars and making money. As more cars were being sold everything began to change in terms of development, and this is when if you look at history you can clearly see what is now commonly described as spreading outward or urban sprawl.

Plano lost its interurban service in 1948 although it was still very much used at the time since Plano was a very small rural town and many people depended on it to get to Downtown. Plano simply shuttered their trolley depot but left it in place along with one of the original Interurban trolley cars that has sat there for over 40 years. Today the depot is a museum.

Here is a book excerpt.

Book Description:
Over a century ago, an industrial America was awakening, and a new transportation technology arrived on the north Texas prairie: electric interurbans. Plano’s Interurban Railway depot was dedicated in July 1908, and electric interurban rail travel began with the creation of the Texas Traction Company. In 1917, three separate systems were connected by a single entrepreneur, J. F. Strickland. Throughout the 1920s, the Texas Electric Railway traveled in and out of Plano carrying riders, mail, and freight. The system was built to travel on existing streetcar tracks and often ran over private rights-of-way between cities. To promote interurban travel, the company created unique cars and special classes of service to appeal to every need. In the post–World War II era, however, the popularity of automobiles ended the important era of electric interurban travel.

Author Bio: When the Texas Electric Railway shut down in 1948, the Plano station remained dormant until a movement began to save the building from demolition. A Texas Electric railcar was restored and installed on tracks beside the former depot, and a museum was created. The Plano Conservancy for Historic Preservation, Inc., in partnership with the City of Plano, manages this facility. Through programming and exhibits, as well as this new book, the Plano Conservancy shares the grace and beauty of electric interurban railway in North Texas.

The Original Interuran station in Plano and one of the origianl trolley cars






Greed of profit pushed the car manufactures to want to dismantle these transportation companies and through their public advertising campaigns they helped make owning a car the only way to go thus instilling into the baby boomer generation that owning a car and living in the suburbs was the opulent way of living, and all the advertisements and public opinions regarding homes and cars in the 1960’s still indicated this mentality.

Today however as a nation we have dug ourselves into a huge hole with the dependence of the automobile and the suburban lifestyle. We are now beginning to see this crumble with the vast number of empty “Big Box” locations that once belonged to companies like Linen & Things and Circuit City not to mention other companies that are shuttering their less productive units like Home Depot and K-Mart. We are finding he cost of road and bridge maintenance to be consuming huge amounts of tax revenues and traffic is congested in many areas.

Cities like Dallas have confronted these issues and have converted entire neighborhoods that once were single family homes into huge successful multi-family mixed development use neighborhoods that offer living, shopping, entertainment and even office space. The Uptown is one of the more successful developments of this new urban development style and incorporating transportation into the design was the first thing they considered.

With all the pollution and the urban sprawl most people regret our cities weren’t more people friendly and more dependent on public transportation. In cities like Plano and Richardson and many others around the nation you now see a huge turn to green areas and walking trails being built or developed into new communities, while infrastructure is slowly (and costly) being designed and installed to include public transportation.

Rail lines and other forms of public transportation was never a popular ballot issue with the people as the taxes needed and the inconvenience of riding the bus with transfers is just too inconvenient. Only those who had no other option were forced t use public transportation putting the stigma of public transportation in many areas as a “Poor” persons means of transportation and thus hindering its growth even more.

I commend Plano for paying millions into DART even if the ridership is almost nothing at this time because having the infrastructure already in place and a plan laid out for future expansion will allow Plano to be ahead of the curve when a worldwide gas crisis occurs (which it will) and gas prices overnight will cause millions of people to rethink public transportation.

Those long time naysayers who complained how useless DART has been will then become the most vocal supporters of “Public Transportation” as they make their way to the busses and trains and take their seats thanking God for the foresight of the city leaders while their cars sit at their homes collecting dust because not only are they now worthless it will require $200.00 in gas to drive it a few miles if gas is even available.

When this crisis does occur you will see neighborhoods like the Uptown area and downtown become revitalized even more as people move to these areas simply for the ease of living that comes from working, socializing, and shopping and in walking distance of their home. Those high dollar suburban neighborhoods with million dollar homes will overnight lose most of their value as they will become stranded islands of rural living with no means of support or transportation to access them.

We as a nation have had to good life ingrained in us for so long we don’t know what hard ship really is. The day will come when public transportation will save the nation and only those cities that have it will survive.

[Lakewooder]

Originally Posted by DWong

Oh quite the opposite, as dfw grows further out and less dense it will only become just the same as LA. Allthough LA has a very dense city, (3x that of Dallas) the outside cities are what have caused the low ridership in LA metro. Again one can not stress enough that dfw is growing 5x the rate on outlying cities than at it's core.

DART light rail ridership continues to rise 11:14 AM CT | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/070809dnmetdart.1e357f1c.html - broken link)