Should Plano and other cities ditch paying for DART? (Dallas: apartments, condos)

[DWong]

I know there's been other threads similar to this one, but again another local article showing how ineffective DART is on suburban cities.

The idea about mass transit is to get people from A-B w/out their cars. Problem is that people are not going to ditch their cars all together which is why DART isn't going to work! People living in NYC, Chi, SF etc don't have cars or use them sparingly.

I know there's been hoop-la w/ saying how much ridership has increased over the years, but guess what... SO HAS THE POPULATION!

What difference does it make if the population increase 20% yet the ridership over the same period only goes up by the same or close to it?

Do y'all agree that improving a bus service would not only be 100x cheaper, but more effective? If Plano is giving 1/3 of it's total general fund to fund something that 1% of the population use (if that) don't y'all agree it's time to get out? People aren't moving to Plano to live in condo's or apartments, they want nice homes.

Mass Transit is something that only works in a dozen or so US cities, DFW it's ok not to be one of them. The biggest attraction is that people can have decent jobs w/ good pay, afford a home have 2 cars and send their kids to good schools. Why invest so much money in something that isn't your main selling point. People are moving there for those reason mentioned and trying to morph into something that isn't for the city isn't worth while.


Effects of DART light rail on Plano | pegasusnews.com | Dallas / Fort Worth

[Big G]

I live in a "nice house", but I can see condos from my back yard, and there are apartments in my son's school zone. Plano has a wide range of housing stock. There are even some (GASP!) poor people living in Plano.

Not all of Plano is Willow Bend. In fact, very little of it is. Plano has worked hard to avoid becoming a Park Cities, with nothing but expensive residential. You know those corporate HQs up in Legacy, and all that industrial on the east side? Well, people work there, including those cleaning the toilets. It makes sense to provide a way for those people to get to work.

I'd say the jam-packed DART Red Line every morning pulling out of Parker Road station is another vote of confidence for mass transit, but for the fact that half those people are leeches from Allen, McKinney, Frisco, and beyond driving into Plano to use our train for free. (No, your $2 ticket does NOT cover the true cost.)

When I worked downtown, I rode the bus from Plano to DT every day.

I think it's a huge shame that Arlington does not provide any mass transit for its 300K residents.

So, no, I don't think Plano should pull out of DART.

[Rakin]

I'm in Las Colinas and the Dart line should be through in the next year and I'm excited. Dart will be the future of Dallas, especially as the price of gas goes back to high levels.

No debate here

[Spade]

Psychologically, the bus is not very desirable and people will not want to choose those modes of transportation over trains. I say that streetcars that will connect to stations needs to be studied in the city of Dallas and the suburbs. If you are going to improve the bus system, make it so that it will greatly feed off and to DART likes the bus system does to Metro in DC.

[momof2dfw]

Just wondering why someone that lives in California really cares about how much WE pay for DART????

Besides, while a large percentage of the population may not ever use it they still get some advantages from it. It means they have LESS traffic to contend with since those others take DART and don't drive themselves. All of course 1 person per vehicle. Jamming up the roads even more. Our rush hour traffic in many of the heavily populated areas is bad enough. DART serves a very good purpose.

[ctrres]

Originally Posted by DWong

living in NYC...don't have cars or use them sparingly.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ever take a walk down Flatbush Ave? All NYers do is drive.

It's true that more dense cities like SF make greater use of rail transit, but Dallas's regional congestion combined with its sprawl also make a strong case for a mix of alternative transit types.

It's really not about taking cars off the road. It's about offering people an alternative to sitting on a parking lot that moves like a glacier. Trains are basically short cuts.

[Grainraiser]

The only people who hate DART are the ones that don't us it. If you work Downtown or around downtown DART is a godsend. I used mass transit for 12 years and it was great. I got to work quicker with alot less stress. Also saved on gass, parking and the wear and tear on my car. I live in Mesquite which is not on the DART system. I would have to drive over to Garland to use DART. As the price of gas rose the parking lot would get full. The transit centers in the northern and southern sectors had cars over flowing in the lots. As you ride into work you notice just how many cars there are on the road with only one driver. The system can certainly be tweaked but DART is a good thing IMHO. Did you know that Arlington is the largest city in the US without a mass transit system.

[tycobb2522]

Lots of good responses here. I don't think anyone ever had the fantasy that rail would replace autos, or that it would pay for itself. It never does either thing, anywhere.

I would also like to see the source that cites Plano is sinking 1/3 of it's total general fund revenue into rail; that's ridiculous.

The article that was referenced is asinine, as many of the responses on that website, and all of the posts here point out. Ridiculous notions such as faulting city planners for zoning density into transit hubs. HUH? That's kind of how transit oriented development works, and kind of what cities and planners do.

How can you ridicule a community for creating a unique and diverse "sense of place", with the attendant economic development? First Plano is a sprawling suburban wasteland, now they are evil for creating dense, vibrant transit oriented development.

No, the rail is not going to replace the car, nor was it ever intended to. What it does, is give people the option, and give transportation to those who don't have an option, as others have pointed out.

[DWong]

Originally Posted by momof2dfw

Just wondering why someone that lives in California really cares about how much WE pay for DART????


Besides, while a large percentage of the population may not ever use it they still get some advantages from it. It means they have LESS traffic to contend with since those others take DART and don't drive themselves. All of course 1 person per vehicle. Jamming up the roads even more. Our rush hour traffic in many of the heavily populated areas is bad enough. DART serves a very good purpose.

BC all my inlaws property taxes are paying for it and mine too when I shop in PLano.

[DWong]

Originally Posted by tycobb2522

Lots of good responses here. I don't think anyone ever had the fantasy that rail would replace autos, or that it would pay for itself. It never does either thing, anywhere.

I would also like to see the source that cites Plano is sinking 1/3 of it's total general fund revenue into rail; that's ridiculous.

The article that was referenced is asinine, as many of the responses on that website, and all of the posts here point out. Ridiculous notions such as faulting city planners for zoning density into transit hubs. HUH? That's kind of how transit oriented development works, and kind of what cities and planners do.

How can you ridicule a community for creating a unique and diverse "sense of place", with the attendant economic development? First Plano is a sprawling suburban wasteland, now they are evil for creating dense, vibrant transit oriented development.

No, the rail is not going to replace the car, nor was it ever intended to. What it does, is give people the option, and give transportation to those who don't have an option, as others have pointed out.

Plano has a general fund of 190 million correct? Paying 60 million to DART isn't that about 1/3. Allthough it's not coming out of the general fund - it's still a hefty price.

I guess people see the light.... why would a mass transit system work in a place that is so sparsely dense? It's pricy and has the LOWEST % ridership than any other mass transit system. Considering it's the 4th largest metro, but near last in ridership.

I know it's a good option to have and is something to showcase, but it's not used by that many and is pricy. That's all folks!