You know you're from WEST Plano when.... (Dallas, Highland Park: section 8, affordable apartments)

[the_hollywoodian]

Originally Posted by theloneranger

Much more so than western Plano kids, yes. It's definitely there, but the kids in my opinion, knowing students and alumni of West, HP, Hillcrest, and most of the private schools in North Dallas, I would say that the West kids are more entitled and obnoxious than those of the rest of the areas.

So basically, you're taking a small sampling of empirical data/set of kids, and using them to further your own preconceived stereotypes about a particular area. Nothing you've provided, in this thread, or in others pertaining to West Plano demonstrate anything but personal opinions, and in your case atleast, trivial and irrelevant ones at that. Who do you really think you are, kid?

Originally Posted by theloneranger

That's not to say that there aren't LOTS of good people who are West products, and that there aren't tools who've graduated from places like HP or St Marks or even, God forbid, Jesuit. But I will say that in my personal experience, having grown up in Dallas with the very kids and kinds of kids you were asking about in the first place, that the West kids do tend to be more flashy with their wealth than those from further south.

Again, from your small sampling of empirical data and limited scope of observation. In the whole scheme of things your little "personal experiences" are statistically insignificant.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

I fail to see how not wanting giant, gaudy, cookie cutter houses in my neighborhood is pompous. The properties would be more expensive than those currently in my neighborhood, but the people that build them tend to not be nice neighbors. They generally aren't particularly considerate of their neighbors wishes and obviously want to one up them by building a bigger monstrosity than the next person. I'm very thankful that our neighborhood hasn't been hit by the phenomenon, even though it very well could have by now. I'm also very sad that it's hit Preston Hollow, where I lived for the first 5 years I lived in Dallas, which was a very traditional Dallas neighborhood but has recently seen a rash of gaudy McMansions ruining the traditions of the neighborhood.

I'm glad you felt the need to go on this long-winded denunciation of the so-called "new money" mentalities, and the tear-down phenonena, which of course is all a result of those "parvenus" who continue to encroach upon and threaten your perfect, all-white oasis of "high class" old money folks. It demonstrates immensely the integrity of your character, or in your case atleast, lack thereof.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

Here you've begun to reach the major thing about Texas: we don't give a DAMN what Yankees think about the way we live our lives. Dallas is not trying to be NY or LA.

Yes, another Texas stereotype confirmed as observed by those "Yankees" (which by the way I thought was a denigration strictly reserved for northerners) on both coasts.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

We are trying to be Dallas. We have our own culture which rewards success in business but also doesn't want to see people crap all over the traditions we've built our culture on.

I keep hearing about the inflated, albeit unjustified ego common amonst many Texans, and hadn't quite experienced it yet - thanks for providing me a glimpse thereof. Truthfully, to those "Yankees", the only traditions Texas is known for, and looked down upon for, is a prevalent resistance to change and healthy dose of backwardness, pervasive examples of blatant racism and discrimination, and a massive ego problem.

Texas and the rest of the south is quite frankly, the laughing stock of both eastern and western coasts, as well as many midwestern cities as well. So your pride may be just a bit misguided.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

I don't care if New York or LA is richer because I am and always will be a Dallasite. Besides, those places have more smog and ruder people than Dallas does anyway.

Ah, yet another example of the unjustifiably bloated Texan ego. I'm happy you choose to embrace insularity in thoughts and ideals, but you must recognize, as many of your native Texan friends do not, is that a world exists outside of Texas.

Texas is not the end all, be all - it is in fact a ostentationably large, southern US state with a reputation as being both backward and provincial. These stereotypes, rather true or untrue invariably affect Dallas as well. Don't believe me? Ask residents of major cities along both coasts; but oh, that's right, you couldn't possibly care what those "Yankees" think about the faultlessness that is Texas.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

Lady, I don't know who you are but you presume to know a lot about me and about Dallas for someone who doesn't even live in Texas yet.

Who are you calling a lady, boy? I don't presume to know anything about you other than what I can gather from your pomp-ridden, self-aggrandizing posts. It seems such you're a college aged kid with a massive ego problem and a delusional perception of reality.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

I am telling you what I've experienced. You asked me, and everyone else on the board, to tell you if the PWSH kids were snobby. You refused to believe us. I don't really know what you want me to tell you. But as for having spent "enough time among the rich," I find that laughable coming out of someone who's coming to live in a glorified farm town given where I went to high school and where my family lives.

I knew we'd uncover it somehow - that smug, condescending, entitled, and superior attitude coming from someone who presumably grew up in a so-called "old money area", (remember, the bastion of true class and sophistication), who should by default exude that fleeting quality known as civility.

Look kid, your family might have money, but your cavalier attitude is not only hypocritical, but I'm sorry to say, largely exaggerated beyond the scope of reasonable reality. Come to Holmby Hills or the Upper East side of Manhattan, or the established wealthy elite towns of New Caanan or Darien, Connecticut and see if your supposedly deep Southern roots hold any significance there. I can assure you, definitively, that they will not, so any merits of distinction you may hold in Texas is not perceived or recognized as being anywhere near the same calibur of worth outside of Texas.

It may be time for a reality check on your part.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

No, it isn't my business how you raise your kids, you are right. But if your kids haven't been raised right, it's also not your business if I bust one of them in the nose for being a rude *******, which I've done to a Plano West kid before beacuse he felt it appropriate to tell me that his father was my father's boss, something which wasn't true in the slightest. I really hope you have the ability to raise your children with class, something which certainly can be done in western Plano. Good luck in that regard.

Wait, you punched a kid in the face because he insulted your father? I expected a bit more from someone supposedly a member of Dallas "high-class elite". You realize, don't you, that that's a class A felony in Texas, right? So, someone hailing from the bastion of refinement and class is prone to violent behavior, unable to deal with any criticism which may bruise, or otherwise damage his frail ego?

I must ponder though, if this a staple of all who originate from these areas, or just a select few.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

I don't think that anyone on this forum is biased against Plano. Just because we dislike the houses and some of the people in the neighborhood doesn't mean that we are biased against it. It's You can give an answer based on your personal experience, that's all. I would say that most residents of western Plano love it. However, when you ask us what we think of a facebook group, and we tell you, and then you don't like it, it's not OUR fault.

If you honestly believe there's no bias against Plano, and particularly it's western edge, I dare you to use the search feature and read some of the comments expressed within some threads.

As for the so-called "personal experiences" mumbo jumbo, it's evident that some will see what they want out of a particular area, especially if they've already made up their mind beforehand. If you or anyone else here can't see why I, a future resident of West Plano, would be insulted by many of the comments in this thread, it just again proves my point that you are biased.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

But in all honesty, from everything you've posted, you are going to love western Plano and fit right in there, so good luck with your move!

I won't disagree with you, as your posts have given me a laundry list of examples of why I'd never consider Highland Park, University Park, Preston Hollow, or any other so-called bastion of "old money". Because, personally, I could forgo the undercurrent of passive racism, unfounded beliefs of self-grandeur, and superiority complexes common among many of those residents.

Originally Posted by theloneranger

Thank god you aren't moving to snobby racist Highland Park, you'd NEVER be able to stand it there!

I think you're right about that.

[theloneranger]

And one final point: Gleneagles isn't really anything to brag about. It's WAY down the totem pole prestige-wise for country clubs in DFW.

[the_hollywoodian]

Originally Posted by theloneranger

And one final point: Gleneagles isn't really anything to brag about. It's WAY down the totem pole prestige-wise for country clubs in DFW.

And what's at the top? Oh, let me guess, the one in the center of that bastion of blue-blooded refinement, Highland Park? The place forever blemished by it's institutionalized racist, class-oppressive ideals, which continue to this very day.

I'll take Gleneagles anyday over that bombastic ridiculousness.

[BigDGeek]

I grew up near Glendora and Tibbs in the heart of Preston Hollow and Preston Hollow kids, at least when I was a kid, were nothing like west Plano kids now. Maybe it's because the Park Cities were right down the road and we had an inferiority complex.

[theloneranger]

Originally Posted by the_hollywoodian

And what's at the top? Oh, let me guess, the one in the center of that bastion of blue-blooded refinement, Highland Park? The place forever blemished by it's institutionalized racist, class-oppressive ideals, which continue to this very day.

I'll take Gleneagles anyday over that bombastic ridiculousness.

I would say that Dallas Country Club and Brook Hollow Golf Club are the most prestigious country clubs in Dallas. Neither is all-white any more, and neither is more class oppressive than Gleneagles. If you can get members to sponsor you and have the dough, they will accept you. Dallas Petroleum Club, while not a country club, is also in this range.

Gleneagles is just as bad, don't kid yourself.

And if you were asking, my family is not a member at any country club in Dallas. Only Southern Hills Country Club in Tulsa.

[Spree]

Originally Posted by the_hollywoodian

And what's at the top? Oh, let me guess, the one in the center of that bastion of blue-blooded refinement, Highland Park? The place forever blemished by it's institutionalized racist, class-oppressive ideals, which continue to this very day.

I'll take Gleneagles anyday over that bombastic ridiculousness.

That has NOT been my experience at all w/the Park Cities. Aren't you moving from LA - have you moved already? It seems you just bought a house in West Plano from your posts. All of a sudden you're an expert on all things Dallas? You've thrown some heavy accusations around, are you sure you want to move here?

This is your first post about 6 weeks ago, my how the attitude has changed //www.city-data.com/forum/8363385-post1.html

[TurtleCreek80]

I graduated from HP, had many West Plano friends in college, and now live in Uptown but work at one of the HQs on Legacy where many coworkers live in Frisco, West Plano (all of Plano actually), Richardson, Allen, etc- so I think I can speak for the attitudes & values of both HP'ers and Northern Suburbs, including West Plano.

First, regarding "diversity", I think that the disparity between income levels is truly what 21st century diversity means. Not race. I graduated from HP with a Hispanic girl who lived inwhat is now a $10+M home on Lakeside Drive. I also graduated with a white guy whose janitor/housekeeper parents scraped every penny to live in the old cheap apartments that were recently torn down by SMU. Which one of them do you think provided more diversity & a real worldview to my classmates? The girl with colored skin that shopped at Banana Republic, Cotton Island, & Neiman's and got a nice SUV for her 16th birthday and went on the senior trip to Mexico? Or the guy who worked 2 jobs, shopped at thrift stores, and worker his a** off in school to get good grades & win a full ride to SMU? Really, West Plano & HPISD are a wash on the diversity front- unless there's a ton of low income housing in WP that I haven't run across yet. There's barely any affordable (like, income of $35k could rent it) housing left in the Park Cities either.

The girls I knew in college from West Plano graduated right before WPSH opened. They always made a point that they were WP- especially during sorority rush- that there was only one "good" part of Plano to be from. They were nice girls, but so much of their identity was that they were part of the WP crew from Plano Senior. Other than that, I don't remember them dressing any nicer or driving ridiculous cars or anything like the FB group's list. I also remember most of them were life long Plano residents with parents who had grown up in Dallas/Richardson- not out of state transplants.

Fast forward 12 years and I cannot believe the things I learn/ hear at work from my coworkers who live in West Plano- and also Starwood in Frisco. The amount of "spending" money the kids get is crazy - $500-1000/ mo just to do the things that "all the other kids" do/get. There is an intense pressure among parents & kids to be perceived as wealthy that has not slowed down at all in the present economic downturn. My coworker has a horribly bratty teen daughter that calls several times a week to "tell" her mother what she HAS to do that week- ie, needs $200 for her bikini wax and spray tan, has to replace her $200 Tory Burch flats because they are so last year, wants to give everyone IPODs or Juicy Couture something as her birthday party favors. It is always, always about the money and keeping up with her peers. They just seem to be playing grown up with mommy & daddy's money and I find it disgusting.

I will also say I think transplants are much more likely to open their wallets and go along with the "status quo" so that their kids will make instant friends and be accepted and also so that they will be accepted & fnd their place in the social pecking order. Maybe I never really saw that side of HP because almost everyone in my graduating class was in the district by 6th grade. It was rare for someone to move in new & try to "spend" their way into one clique or another. Actually, one guy did try to do that & everyone made fun of his Louis Vuitton backpack. It was too much! Everyone else had a JanSport!



Fast forward 12 years and I am shocked

[Grainraiser]

"West Plano & HPISD are a wash on the diversity front- unless there's a ton of low income housing in WP that I haven't run across yet. There's barely any affordable (like, income of $35k could rent it) housing left in the Park Cities either."


You can't be serious. Seems to me your saying that only minorities who live in low income housing would make up the students at either HP or West Plano. There are many minorities that have the means to live in either. West Plano has some and HP has nil. They certainly are not equal.

[TurtleCreek80]

Grainraiser,

No- you missed my point completely. I said that I think income disparity is what creates diversity- having a broad range of incomes (ie, Woodrow- where there are free lunch kids in class with kids who live on Tokalon or Lakewood Blvd)- is what creates a diverse environment. A white kid with money is pretty much the same as a wealthy black, Hispanic, or Asian kid. This is a point that our President has made over & over, that economic disparity is the new great divider for our country, not race.

Furthermore, HPISD does have some students of non-white origin, NOT zero- as you misquote again & again. I am not saying it's the melting pot of Dallas but there IS a difference between some and zero.
Because I happen to have a recent HP yearbook handy, here are the race breakdowns of each class:
12th grade- 3 Asian, 7 Hispanic, 1 Indian, 1 Middle Eastern= 12 (4% of class)
11th grade- 6 Asian, 4 Hispanic = 10 (3% of class)
10th grade- 1 Black, 4 Hispanic, 2 Middle Eastern, 4 Asian = 11 (3% of class)
9th grade- 5 Hispanic, 1 Black, 6 Asian, 2 Middle Eastern = 14 (3% of class)

Again, I know 3-4% is no a lot, but it's not zero.

[TurtleCreek80]

One more & then I'm done for the night.

Hollywood- in reference to your quote saying "Texas is not the be all and end all" and that no one on the East Coast knows/cares what HP is.....
1) No, Texas is not the be all & end all. What it is, though, is a great place to live. Cost of living- whether in Oak Cliff, HP, Irving, Allen, Lake Highlands- is much lower than comprable neighborhoods/suburbs on the East and West coasts. It is a no income tax state that is a great place to own & operate a business. It is one of the only state economies that is still growing/ flat and a place where home values will remain flat to slightly down to the 2007 peak. It is a place where people are generally friendly and want to know their neighbors. It is a place where family values mean more than they do in almost every other major city in the US. It is not perfect- we have significant immigration & education (particularly in the big city ISDs) issues, but it's a pretty great & easy place to live.
Why are you moving here, again?

2) I lived in the heart of the Upper East Side for 5 years and plenty - and I mean plenty- of UESiders know exactly what HP is, whether due to SMU, friends from summer camp, having HP neighbors in the summer in the Hamptons, Martha's Vineyard, or Nantucket, or from the elite East Coast schools where many HP grads matriculate. HP is one of the established (almost 100 years) elite neighborhoods in the country, right up there with Greenwich, Winnettka, Buckhead, Chestnut Hill, Short Hills, etc. People who live in these towns & whose roots go back several generations in these towns, know about one another. When I wrote an article for the HPHS newspaper, my adviser connected me with New Trier HS, which serves Winnettka. He had met their advisor at a conference.
The true UES - not the Gossip Girl version - has the same preppy heart as HP. In fact, both were mentioned in the 1980s classic "The Preppy Handbook." Wealth means security and the ability to have an eccentric child who wants to move to Indonesia and live in a fishing village. True old money preserves wealth for future generations, which means 16 year olde drive old Volvos, Jeep Waggoneers, and hand-me-down BMWs, maybe a new Honda or Jeep. Not a Hummer (see W. Plano). It means shopping at JCrew, Lilly Pulitzer, having a Vineyard Vines tie with little whales on it. Not being flash with the latest Ed Hardy. Being old money can even mean having no money left, but having a prestigious family name. I was fully accepted by re UES crew and was never "mocked" from being from a joke of a state. Rather, all my friends always wanted to come home with me and enjoy warm weather, a trip to the original Neiman's downtown, and still rave about Dallas' treasures- happy hour on he patio at the Mansion, a trip to the Nasher Sculpture Garden & Museum, the winding hilly streets of old HP, Matt'e El Rancho, Cool Thursdays at the Arboretum, etc.