Fabulous people of Southlake/Westlake... do you love it? (Dallas: real estate, homes)

[fourtoesshowing]

So do any of you live in hp/up? Why does DISD carry such a mixed reputation? It seems people are moving incredibly far away from the city center to put their kids in "good" public schools. Are elementary schools really that rough?

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by fourtoesshowing

Spree, we are definitely looking at UP/HP. It makes logical sense, since we'll be seeing clients all over the metroplex. We also love the proximity to Love Field. We'll be making regular trips to the DFW (about once a month) for the next few months before leasing something to live in while we work with a realtor to find a home. I'm just trying to do some of the legwork ahead of time.

Great suggestion re: the ft worth forum. I have not yet visited that. Thank you so much for the quick response. It's greatly appreciated!

If you can afford Southlake, then definitely check out HP/UP. Personally if I had the money and had to choose between Southlake or the Park Cities, I would choose the Park Cities in less than 1 second, every time.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by fourtoesshowing

So do any of you live in hp/up? Why does DISD carry such a mixed reputation? It seems people are moving incredibly far away from the city center to put their kids in "good" public schools. Are elementary schools really that rough?

There are lots of elementary schools in the DISD that are rated highly. The junior high and high schools that some of these exemplary/recognized schools feed into are not rated as highly because their feeder patterns contain elementary schools that are not as good, so those students drag the test scores down.

According to the TEA's accountability page for the DISD, there are 231 campuses in DISD. 46 are exemplary and 82 are recognized. You will find most of the better elementary schools and junior highs in the Woodrow Wilson, Hillcrest, and W.T. White feeder patterns. Most of the DISD's magnet programs carry an exemplary rating, and its science and engineering and TAG (talented and gifted) programs are nationally recognized. The "dark horse" of Dallas high schools is Sunset in north Oak Cliff, which I hear is experiencing sort of a rebirth. Of all the high school feeder patterns I think Woodrow has the most exemplary-rated elementary schools feeding it.

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfre...list.srch.html

[TurtleCreek80]

I grew up in the Park Cities in the 80s-90s and live a stone's throw from there now. To answer some of the questions here,

-There are PLENTY of working folks in the Park Cities. I have several friends from high school that have recently bought houses in the Park Cities now that their kids are approaching Kindergarten. With all but one couple, BOTH spouses work. As in, 2 big firm attorneys or 2 finance folks. In your early 30s, it takes two incomes totalling $250k+ to comfortably afford the Park Cities. Now, I bet in a few more years once the first spouse makes partner and is pulling in $400k+ a year, that my girlfriends will begin to stay home & start their volunteer careers.

-House size- yes, you get way more for your money in Southlake, hand's down. But you're also way out in the middle of nowhere if you are someone who enjoys a wide variety of athletic, cultural, and entertainment options. Way out in the middle of nowhere. Who wants a 30 minute drive ahead of them at 10:30pm on a weeknight after a Mavs game? Not me!

-Where kids congregate in the Park Cities. The lakehouse thing is not "new" as one poster mentioned above. I'd guess about 20-25% of families have a second home- either lakehouses at Cedar Creek or in the Hill Country. Many others have ranches. Probably 5% have major second or third homes in Aspen, Santa Fe, New York, the Hamptons, Nantucket- where the world's rich play.
Kids & teens hang out at friends's houses, NorthPark, Snider Plaza, the movie theater at HP Village, the Dallas Country Club if parents are members, and the UP and HP pools. Once they are older, many hours are spent practicing for sports, playing on select teams, and with private coaches. I'd guess about 25% of high school kids have an after-school or weekend job during the school year, at normal places like ice cream parlors, retail stores, mowing lawns, etc. It's not always the "poor" kids with jobs- many a wealthy parent in HP has enforces the belief that it's "my" wealth (parents), not yours (kid's), so if you want to live like this, get working!
For weekend fun, going to Scots games, dinner, movies, dates and group dates, hanging at friends houses, and going out in Dallas. We used to go bowling at the old Don Carter's on Skillman, concerts in Deep Ellum, go to the State Fair or whatever's going on in Dallas. And there is a party culture in high school- some cliques drink and party, some senior girls are already dating SMU guys, while other cliques don't drink or party. Even within the larger "popular" crowd, there were 3 distinct groups- the "good" kids, the party kids, and the smallest group- the really wild kids (cocaine, hard drugs & liquor).

[fourtoesshowing]

TurtleCreek80 that's GREAT info - and I love that you've got firsthand experience there. BigDGeek - didn't mean to infer that no DISD schools did well...it just seems the district takes a beating online. There seems to be much ado about diversity and "fairness" when ranking. I get it.

TC80 - that sounds a lot like us. Two parents working. It's mostly my husband these days, but we are both involved in much of our work. As our business and our daughter are growing, I'm working less and less. I chuckled at your comment about your girlfriends beginning their "volunteer careers" - nicely put. That might very well be the way things are headed if we're blessed.

Lots of good info to chew on. I really appreciate the hard data and hard numbers that you two offered via your posts and link. Much thanks. Hoping to intelligently approach our relocation. If I can narrow down our search it makes our transition that much smoother. Hoping to knock out some of my big questions online so I don't bombard my husband with options

[MaryS80]

Finding the right neighborhood really depends on where in the US you are coming from. HP/UP for as much as it gets touted as the Beverly hills of Dallas reminds me much more of the East Coast. Older homes, mature trees, walkability, great architecture. It is in some ways very traditional, lots of philanthropy, luncheons, other such social functions.

[jm_in_texas]

Foretoes, here's a post I placed on another Forum. We live in HP/UP. My background is 1st generation college student, working class background, etc. I feel very welcome here. People have to remember that the average family in a $800k-$1M house in HP/UP is dramatically different from the small minority who live in $5M plus homes.

I live in the Park Cities, and consider our household "upper middle class" because we both work. We are part of a 30-40% segment of the Park Cities that is NEVER talked about. We both work, we work hard, and we drive older cars and make other sacrifices that enable us to afford this area. We absolutely love it. We do encounter some ostentatious people, but they are in the minority. Most people are either in the same boat as we or more wealthy but "grounded" people. Lakewood is also an outstanding area with gorgeous natural beauty and wonderful people for this person with a $1M budget.

[fourtoesshowing]

Mary & jm, we are movng from the Midwest mos recently but have lived on both coasts as well as Texas. I definitely prefer population density, walkability and proximity to nice things. It's impressive and reassuring to know that a good % of park cities residents work for a living and live in homes around $1M. I'd hate to think we'd make the biggest investment of our lives and feel we were somehow the "poor kids" on the block. Lol. Good to have the reality check that we'd be among many first generation successes still building their business.

Having said al of that, I see a map like this City of Dallas Interactive Maps and it makes me want to grab my little toddler girl and head off to the safety of cookie-cutter-ville. I do think the data can be misunderstood.

[TurtleCreek80]

Four Toes-

Please realize that the Park Cities' crime data is not included on the Dallas map link you posted because HP and UP are their own municipalities. In the past 30 years, I can only remember maybe 5 murders (almost all murdered by a relative- not random), and maybe 1 assault/ robbing at gunpoint a year. 99.9% of crime in the Park Cities are crimes of opportunity- stealing a handbag out of an unlocked car, a bike out of an open garage.

You can read the weekly crime reports online at Park Cities People, or call either police department directly for more data.

I know it can be very hard to look at the crime map and see some really bad neighborhooods (Park Lane around Greenville Ave or south of Lemmon, east of Central) that are less than 2 miles from the Park Cities and have a tremendous amount of crime (including violent crimes), but none of that really ever spills over into the Park Cities. The UPPD and HPPD are incredibly vigilant about protecting the community.

[TurtleCreek80]

PS- having said all that, I feel incredibly safe all over Dallas. It's a big city and you just need to be smart->
1. Never run in public with iPod. Yes, everyone else does it, but you are so much less aware of your surroundings when you're rocking out to 80s Bon Jovi or whatever. Although there have only been a handful of incidences on the Katy Trail, I believe all of them included headphones.
2. Install a security system in your home & actually use it every day while you are at work and every night while you are asleep. So many people have them but don't use them.
3. Safety in numbers! There are plenty of places all over Dallas I feel 100% safe as a single female, but even so, if I'm out with friends and we've had a drink or two (but not enough to call a cab), we'll always all walk to the closest car and then drive everyone else back to their cars so no one is walking alone.
4. Always lock your car & take or hide your belongings. So simple. And can save so much heartache of a handbag or wallet being stolen.

Dallas is a big city - not Mayberry, USA- so you always need to practice the same safety steps that you would in NYC, Chicago, DC, etc. This applies to the suburbs, too, especially as Section 8 housing is creeping north. No place is 100% safe- even "cookie cutter suburbia". There was that case last year where a man on major drugs in a $400k+ neighborhood in Richardson brutally murdered a friend who was at visiting him. My boss' wallet was stolen out of his 7 Series BMW in his gated Starwood subdivision in Frisco, the beginning of a long battle with identity theft. Another coworker's neighbor in Plano's $500k+ home was broken into while she was home and she was tied up while they took everything for hours. No place is safe.