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I don't see how Loop 9 is encouraging sprawl. I could see if the proposed route were further out, but it is mostly within Dallas County and the communities that the road is planning to run through are either suburbs that share a common border with Dallas ("inner-ring") or smaller, mostly undeveloped cities like Wilmer. It is been under discussion for years and now that it seems to be moving (slowly) forward, people are beginning to complain. In my opinion, the road is going to be needed because the southern Dallas County/northern Ellis County region has continued to grow and will continue to do so because of the land that is available. The loop will also pass through an area where the Inland Port is under development. Growth may continue to the north of Dallas, but there are going to be people who would rather live closer to the city of Dallas than to the border with Oklahoma.
It encourages sprawl by providing more highway miles for people to drive. Pretty simple, really. You even describe it in your own post.
"In my opinion, the road is going to be needed because the southern Dallas County/northern Ellis County region has continued to grow and will continue to do so because of the land that is available."
The more roads get built, the further people will commute, thus increasing sprawl and traffic and necessitating more roads. It's a vicious cycle.
to a point. But it was proven a long time ago that sprawl doesn't need a freeway. It sounds good, but there have to be viable alternatives for people to not seek out sprawl. What if I have a family with school age children? Does Dallas provide viable alternatives that don't cost double the price of larger available housing. I'm pro-urban myself, but I don't think Dallas is providing the anti-sprawl alternative.
What they need to do is expand DART, not build a &%*#ing b/240 mile long highway.
But DART is not for everyone. What many hope to accomplish with such a loop is for those that are passing thru giving them an alternative to having to drive right smack dab into the city center and creating more traffic. One can totally bypass and cut down their travel time and fuel consumption by taking advantage of such loops in many instances. It DOES provide many a benefit to the environment. Same goes for even those that would use it daily or off and on that live close by. It gives them an alternative to get completely across town without having to go right smack into the middle of the heaviest traffic congestion that is typically closer into the city center. Throw in all of the businesses that have trucks and delivery vehicles on the roads daily they can really take advantage of loops as an easy way to quickly traverse from one side to the other with little to no traffic congestion and cuts down on travel time. Which can help keep costs down to the end users like you and me. There ARE advantages to these loops as there is a method to the madness. I'd hate to see FedEx and UPS having to depend solely on DART to deliver and pick up parcels Or even our business, YIKES! But then again, some businesses wouldn't be allowed on a DART bus or train due to the fact it can be hazardous cargo they are transporting. Just be thankful for the fact that these roads help keep the freight moving and out of highly congested areas
Yeah, good point there.
but to the trucks, if they need to make deliveries to communities and towns in DFW metro, then they should use the central highways, but go at strategic times, like not rush hour. A loop would be good for the people that need to get from lets say Frisco to SW FW but not for truckers.
Another idea would be to make passenger vehicle only lanes or highways, then the trucks could take their own separate highway and not cause problems.
I'm just against this for 3 reasons:
1. The $30 billion this is going to cost
2. The 240 more miles of smog
3. The more Friscos (Nothing against you, Frisco )and other far flung sprawl towns this is going to facilitate.
(Yeah like DFW needs more of 1 and 3 )
Yeah, good point there.
but to the trucks, if they need to make deliveries to communities and towns in DFW metro, then they should use the central highways, but go at strategic times, like not rush hour. A loop would be good for the people that need to get from lets say Frisco to SW FW but not for truckers.
Another idea would be to make passenger vehicle only lanes or highways, then the trucks could take their own separate highway and not cause problems.
Uhm, obviously you haven't been around the frieght business. My dad was a truck driver. My husband owns a business that delivers products/goods in commercial/industrial trucks. You can NOT restrict their passage on highways to non rush hour. YIKES!!! In the summer months we have our guys come in earlier than the normal 7:30 so that they can get a head start on the day and they are done and out of the heat by 2:00-3:00. So yes, they are on the roads during morning rush hour. We also deliver to businesses that are only open during "normal" business hours. Next time your out to eat or something notice the sign on the outside of the back door. "No Deliveries Between 11:00am - 2:00pm" is pretty standard. They don't have time for their staff to stop and sign for products being delivered or swap out items. Same goes for doctors and dentist offices. They close for lunch and "No Deliveries". They also don't hang around till after rush hour to accept deliveries. Yes, doctors, dentists, surgical centers, etc get deliveries on trucks . Manufacturing companies are also the same way in many cases. Don't deliver after a certain time. Now emergency deliveries are different and a whole nother ball of wax. But overall, the businesses that they are delivering to operate on "normal" work hours. Throw in that if businesses that deliver via truck had to go in NON rush hour how that would raise prices as they would have to cover the additional expense of more personel to work these "off" hours. Remember, truck drivers can only operate a truck a certain amount of hours without having to stop for rest. What your thinking of is TOTALLY not even possible.
Also look at the grocery stores and when they get deliveries. Most companies that deliver to grocery stores start out their day at around 5-6am. They are on the roads during morning rush hour. Why? Because the grocery stores want their stocks in time to put out for the normal shoppers that will start showing up from 8:00 am onward. If you restricted them to only deliver in "non" rush hour you would be looking at all deliveries basically having to be done during what is known as the "3rd shift". Then the grocery stores would have to hire more people to work that 3rd shift in order for the deliveries to be made. Expect to pay higher grocery prices for that one.
Seperate highways???? Uhm, like in the businesses that they deliver to are the same ones that everyone is going to work at. What kind of "seperate highways" are you thinking of. Think of every single little delivery that comes into every single warehouse, office building, schools, hotels, restaurants, etc. They all get there via truck. They have to navigate the same roads we do as we are all basically headed to the same areas/places. Should we double decker every single highway and roadway to make one solely for trucks?
Then let's say my business. We plan our routes out very well. We do deliver to some of these far flung burbs. So every customer that is out that direction is made on the same day. Why would I send a truck right thru a "central highway" if they don't need to be there and it is going to cost me x amount of more in time, fuel, man hours, etc? You have to operate smart in order to stay in business. These ideas are not going to work in order to keep businesses going and operating. I'm not going to put a truck that is going from say Mesquite to Mansfield on LBJ if they can take a loop south of town and get there to the customer in half the time. Then he has more time to make MORE customers.
Sorry, I've been around the freight business way too long. Every single, what I call "lame brain idea" that gets thrown out there I've heard. None of them are functional or feasiable in the least bit.
Uhm, obviously you haven't been around the frieght business. My dad was a truck driver. My husband owns a business that delivers products/goods in commercial/industrial trucks. You can NOT restrict their passage on highways to non rush hour. YIKES!!! In the summer months we have our guys come in earlier than the normal 7:30 so that they can get a head start on the day and they are done and out of the heat by 2:00-3:00. So yes, they are on the roads during morning rush hour. We also deliver to businesses that are only open during "normal" business hours. Next time your out to eat or something notice the sign on the outside of the back door. "No Deliveries Between 11:00am - 2:00pm" is pretty standard. They don't have time for their staff to stop and sign for products being delivered or swap out items. Same goes for doctors and dentist offices. They close for lunch and "No Deliveries". They also don't hang around till after rush hour to accept deliveries. Yes, doctors, dentists, surgical centers, etc get deliveries on trucks . Manufacturing companies are also the same way in many cases. Don't deliver after a certain time. Now emergency deliveries are different and a whole nother ball of wax. But overall, the businesses that they are delivering to operate on "normal" work hours. Throw in that if businesses that deliver via truck had to go in NON rush hour how that would raise prices as they would have to cover the additional expense of more personel to work these "off" hours. Remember, truck drivers can only operate a truck a certain amount of hours without having to stop for rest. What your thinking of is TOTALLY not even possible.
Also look at the grocery stores and when they get deliveries. Most companies that deliver to grocery stores start out their day at around 5-6am. They are on the roads during morning rush hour. Why? Because the grocery stores want their stocks in time to put out for the normal shoppers that will start showing up from 8:00 am onward. If you restricted them to only deliver in "non" rush hour you would be looking at all deliveries basically having to be done during what is known as the "3rd shift". Then the grocery stores would have to hire more people to work that 3rd shift in order for the deliveries to be made. Expect to pay higher grocery prices for that one.
Seperate highways???? Uhm, like in the businesses that they deliver to are the same ones that everyone is going to work at. What kind of "seperate highways" are you thinking of. Think of every single little delivery that comes into every single warehouse, office building, schools, hotels, restaurants, etc. They all get there via truck. They have to navigate the same roads we do as we are all basically headed to the same areas/places. Should we double decker every single highway and roadway to make one solely for trucks?
Then let's say my business. We plan our routes out very well. We do deliver to some of these far flung burbs. So every customer that is out that direction is made on the same day. Why would I send a truck right thru a "central highway" if they don't need to be there and it is going to cost me x amount of more in time, fuel, man hours, etc? You have to operate smart in order to stay in business. These ideas are not going to work in order to keep businesses going and operating. I'm not going to put a truck that is going from say Mesquite to Mansfield on LBJ if they can take a loop south of town and get there to the customer in half the time. Then he has more time to make MORE customers.
Sorry, I've been around the freight business way too long. Every single, what I call "lame brain idea" that gets thrown out there I've heard. None of them are functional or feasiable in the least bit.
Yes, I admit the freight idea is bad, but a $30 Billion () highway is just to expensive.
They need to concentrate on expanding all the DART like facilities and not building......well all they are doing is building more sprawl!!!
Yes, I admit the freight idea is bad, but a $30 Billion () highway is just to expensive.
They need to concentrate on expanding all the DART like facilities and not building......well all they are doing is building more sprawl!!!
Considering the mileage of the highway being planned, $30 billion isn't all that expensive.
Sprawl is going to happen no matter what when your metro is adding +1 million people a decade unless you impose some draconian land use policies such a no growth zone or high tax growth zone. Houston already has two loops and we are trying to build another one. Loops work to contain the sprawl better than building radial highways, makes the sprawl contained closer to the city instead of outwards along a highway that is built going away from the city.
You don't need any "draconian land use policies." If you stop building highways that facilitate sprawl, people will eventually hit a breaking point where people will move closer to the city in more dense environments.
Pretty simple. Stop building highways and people will stop commuting 100 miles to the city.
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I'd hate to see FedEx and UPS having to depend solely on DART to deliver and pick up parcels 
Or even our business, YIKES! But then again, some businesses wouldn't be allowed on a DART bus or train due to the fact it can be hazardous cargo they are transporting. 
)
but a $30 Billion (
