Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But is it muggy? Where's your physical evidence? Do you have any numbers to back up your claim? Any authoritative references?
The numbers I supplied came from the NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, a division of the US Department of Commerce. Is NOAA also in denial?
Why am I all over you on this issue? Because you're prevaricating, telling porkies, falsifying, and just plain fibbing about any alleged humidity in Dallas. You're wilfully misrepresenting an issue of fact.
The figures I've presented, and the source I cited, make you for a liar. Why not admit it? Or better yet, go away and sulk.
Relax you get too worked up, take it too seriously. Afterall your summers aren't as bad as places like Houston, NOLA, & Miami. They're bad, but not quite that bad. And except for those nasty ice storms in the winter, the weather is pretty good in the Oct - April period in N.Texas.
As others have said, it's the dew point that matter as far as comfort goes. Who's uncomfortable when the temperature is relatively low and the humidity is high? I would venture a guess and say that not many are. Looking back at July 31 of last year (a "for instance), the minimum humidity for the day was 45% with a temperature of 90 and a dew point of 66 degrees.
Refer to post #5 by cdelena. That dew point makes it right smack in the middle of sticky and oppressive. On that same day and several hours later, the dew point jumped to 72. I'd call that tropical. Yep, even Dallas gets tropical weather.
DEW POINT That's what it's all about. <60 = tolerable, 60-68 = borderline miserable, >68 very uncomfortable/miserable
Dallas and Houston rarely have dewpoints above 60F from mid-November until mid-April resulting in more pleasant conditions. So, for 5 months of the year the weather and associated "comfort index" is tolerable.
From late April - early November dew points regularly are above 65 which results in the "humidity" every one ******* about.
On average Dallas/Fort Worth will have more tolerable late afternoon dew points and associated heat indices than Houston because occasional "dry lines" and "mixing" of drier air above the surface down to the ground bring dew points down when temperatures are at there highest from 12-5pm. This is due to Dallas' more northern proximity (away from the Gulf), higher elevation and other meteorological conditions.
That's why the actual air temperature in Dallas is, on average, higher than Houston in the summer months because the drier air heats up quickly. It might be 99 at DFW and 93 at bush intercontinental in mid-July but it will feel worse in Houston because of the higher dewpoint. This isn't rocket science folks.
Houston is definitely more humid and wet than Dallas...it ain't hard to figure that out...just look at a map...see that little body of water 60 miles from downtown Houston called the Gulf Of Mexico?? Yeah, that's why.
BTW, not that anyone cares, but I LOVE the humidity. Can't wait for June/July...bring it on! I'm sick of this cold crap.
As others have said, it's the dew point that matter as far as comfort goes. Who's uncomfortable when the temperature is relatively low and the humidity is high? I would venture a guess and say that not many are. Looking back at July 31 of last year (a "for instance), the minimum humidity for the day was 45% with a temperature of 90 and a dew point of 66 degrees.
Refer to post #5 by cdelena. That dew point makes it right smack in the middle of sticky and oppressive. On that same day and several hours later, the dew point jumped to 72. I'd call that tropical. Yep, even Dallas gets tropical weather.
Your claim is not scientifically tenable. The only way the dew point can jump from 66 to 72 from morning to afternoon is if by magic millions of tons of water were added to the atmosphere over North Texas. This is normally impossible, short of a mass of wetter air blowing in on a weather front. . The actual dew point, in degrees, is in proportion to the amount of water in the air. The feeling of humidity or mugginess is only in proportion to the absorbancy of the air.
Can there be two different dewpoints that both give us 45% relative humidity at 5PM? No, that is physically impossible. If the dew points are different, but the temperatures are the same, say 95 degrees, then the relative humidity will also be different.
Thus, the dew point and the relative humidity are just two different ways of measuring the same thing. We say that dew point values and relative humidity values are FUNCTIONALLY related.They are not independent of one another. If you know the relative humidity and the temperature, you can then easily calculate the dew point.
If the relative humidity is at 45% at 95 degrees at 5PM, then no one will feel sticky or muggy... the air will soak your perspiration like a sponge. If it is more like 70% or 80% at 95 degrees, you will feel much more muggy, more sweaty, and your body will undergo much more stress.
During a typical summer day, with a fixed amount of water in the air, the dew point will stay the same from morning to night, assuming the entire day is sunny, no thunderstorms. The relative humidity, however is higher in the morning and lower in late afternoon, the body will be more stressed in the morning, because it cools itself by evaporating sweat. The higher the relative humidity, the harder the body has to work to avoid fever. That bodily stress is the feeling we call humid or sticky or muggy... mostly because with any physical exertion, the body is drenched with sweat.
Can you feel muggy in cold weather, with high relative humidity? Absolutely. San Franciscotemperatures can be in the 60s in July, and in the morning and evening, there are thickfogs. If you try to do anything that requires physical exertion, I guarantee that you will feel very sweaty and very humid.
My preceding post raises an interesting question or two.
Can we normally feel the difference between heat and humidity?
Does heat, apart from humidity, stress the body?
As for the second question, I'd say that cold is a greater threat to the body than heat, at least up to about 95 degrees. The body normally has to burn energy to keep its internal temperature at 98.6. if the external temperature is about 50 degrees, then the body has to whomp up the metabolism to raise itself another 48 degrees, or die of hypothermia. If the outside temp is 78, it only has to burn energy for a 20 degree raise, much less of a stressor. If the external temperature is 95, then it just needs a 3 degree boost... even less of a stressor. Above 98, however, different problems come into play.
The problem we have in North Texas is clothing, which is unnatural in relation to the weather. People in tropical climates wear very little, and maximize their skin exposure to the air.
But there's another factor... consistently hotter temperatures make humans lazy and lethargic. Tropical civilizations are usually poverty stricken ones, third-worldish.
So the population of the Southern United States has settled on an optimum temperature of about 70-80 degrees. Since we have an incentive to support air conditioning, or at least had it earlier than the northern states, we have economically advanced beyond the Northern States, and enjoy seeing their population flee to our part of the continent.
The longer a population spends in an air temperature between 70 and 80 degrees, the more advanced it becomes.
In the first half of the 20th century, coastal Southern California was the only place to offer that ideal temperature range, and there was a massive migration to their region. In the second half, the Southeast developed its HVAC machinery and captured the migration stream from Southern California.
DEW POINT That's what it's all about. <60 = tolerable, 60-68 = borderline miserable, >68 very uncomfortable/miserable
You're mistaken. The body cannot perceive a dew point because it is a calculated value and has no physical existence. The human body can only perceive the air's relative humidity, which is the absorbancy of the air.[quote
Quote:
Dallas and Houston rarely have dewpoints above 60F from mid-November until mid-April resulting in more pleasant conditions. So, for 5 months of the year the weather and associated "comfort index" is tolerable.
From late April - early November dew points regularly are above 65 which results in the "humidity" every one ******* about.
Refer to my point above. A dew point cannot CAUSE anything because it is a mathematical abstraction, not a physical phenomenon.
Quote:
On average Dallas/Fort Worth will have more tolerable late afternoon dew points and associated heat indices than Houston because occasional "dry lines" and "mixing" of drier air above the surface down to the ground bring dew points down when temperatures are at there highest from 12-5pm. This is due to Dallas' more northern proximity (away from the Gulf), higher elevation and other meteorological conditions.
A blast of drier air would certainly be more comfortable, but even if that didn't happe, the afternoon lowering of humidity due to a rise in temperature would be comfortable.
Quote:
That's why the actual air temperature in Dallas is, on average, higher than Houston in the summer months because the drier air heats up quickly. It might be 99 at DFW and 93 at bush intercontinental in mid-July but it will feel worse in Houston because of the higher dewpoint. This isn't rocket science folks.
No, that's not why Dallas is warmer than Houston. Houston's atmosphere is cooled by losing the heat that goes into evaporating water from the gulf of mexico. Things like melting, or evaporation, are called phase changes, and they require much more energy than just raising temperature one degree. Converting a liquid into a gas requires energy, even if the temperature of the water vapor is the same as the water it came from.
Dallas is not as hot as it could be for a couple of reasons. The evaporation from the lakes cools it a little, but raises the relative humidity. And then Dallas is farther to the north, and the sunlight (solar insolation) is slightly weaker. Finally, Dallas is higher in altitude, between 500 and 800 feet in elevation, and this cools it a little. The drop in temperature with increasing altitude is called the lapse rate.
Quote:
Houston is definitely more humid and wet than Dallas...it ain't hard to figure that out...just look at a map...see that little body of water 60 miles from downtown Houston called the Gulf Of Mexico?? Yeah, that's why.
BTW, not that anyone cares, but I LOVE the humidity. Can't wait for June/July...bring it on! I'm sick of this cold crap.
Agree that Houston's humidity is caused by the Gulf. Can't agree about loving it, though.
You're mistaken. The body cannot perceive a dew point because it is a calculated value and has no physical existence. The human body can only perceive the air's relative humidity, which is the absorbancy of the air.[quote
Refer to my point above. A dew point cannot CAUSE anything because it is a mathematical abstraction, not a physical phenomenon.
A blast of drier air would certainly be more comfortable, but even if that didn't happe, the afternoon lowering of humidity due to a rise in temperature would be comfortable.
No, that's not why Dallas is warmer than Houston. Houston's atmosphere is cooled by losing the heat that goes into evaporating water from the gulf of mexico. Things like melting, or evaporation, are called phase changes, and they require much more energy than just raising temperature one degree. Converting a liquid into a gas requires energy, even if the temperature of the water vapor is the same as the water it came from.
Dallas is not as hot as it could be for a couple of reasons. The evaporation from the lakes cools it a little, but raises the relative humidity. And then Dallas is farther to the north, and the sunlight (solar insolation) is slightly weaker. Finally, Dallas is higher in altitude, between 500 and 800 feet in elevation, and this cools it a little. The drop in temperature with increasing altitude is called the lapse rate.
Agree that Houston's humidity is caused by the Gulf. Can't agree about loving it, though.
I'm not going to argue the intricacies of human perception of dew point/relative humidity blah blah blah
Let's cut to the chase...it's hot and humid and it FEELS hot and humid in both Dallas and Houston 6-7 months of the year. Some people curse us to hell because of it and some people love it. I wish it was hot and humid 12 months of the year and I'm not alone here...many of my European-transplant friends love the heat and humidity and hope never to return to their cold and damp climates. Cheers!
One of the important assumptions of the Man Made Global Warming theory is that humidity, or water vapor, is the most powerful Greenhouse Gas. A rise in temperature will raise the absolute humidity, which traps more heat, which evaporates more water, which traps more heat... creating a sort of chain reaction of Warming.
One problem with this theory is that coastal places, such as Houston, are more humid, and should therefore be hotter, since their humidity is a Greenhouse Gas. In actual practice, they are cooler than the interior, thus presenting a challenge to the theory.
Even comparing interior cities, the theory fails. For example, Dallas and Atlanta are both interior cities, at about the same distance from the equator, and so get the same amount of solar energy. Atlanta is more humid than Dallas, both in relative terms and in absolute terms, as you can see by the heavily forested environs of Atlanta, and the drier prairie around Dallas.
In theory, Atlanta's greater amount of water vapor should make it hotter than dallas, but in actual experience it is lower.
I don't know anyone who has been to Dallas that considers it a cool and dry city. it's considered a hot and humid city
I see others have tried to reason with you, so it might be a waste of time...
If Colorado with its cool temps and low humidity is your point of reference, of course Dallas is going to feel hotter and more humid. DUH!
But the reference point to the rest of the country is valid. When I first moved to DFW in the 80s, I met the wife who had just moved from the panhandle. She constantly mentioned the humidity in Dallas, I told her it wasn't humid.... as I had spent most of my life in Georgia and Florida at that point. She also mentioned how she loved all the trees. Coming from Georgia, I said "You call these scrubby things trees?"
It's all a matter of perspective.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yep, even Dallas gets tropical weather.
Cheers!
