A new proposed toll road around Dallas? (San Antonio, Plano: homes, schools)

[ladihawkae]

The Texas State Highway Loop 9 threatens to increase the cost of business in Dallas (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-31836-Dallas-Trucking-Examiner~y2010m3d1-The-Texas-State-Highway-Loop-9-threatens-to-increase-the-cost-of-business-in-Dallas - broken link)

This is going to destroy a lot of homes if it goes through.

[Grainraiser]

That's the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by ladihawkae

The Texas State Highway Loop 9 threatens to increase the cost of business in Dallas (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-31836-Dallas-Trucking-Examiner~y2010m3d1-The-Texas-State-Highway-Loop-9-threatens-to-increase-the-cost-of-business-in-Dallas - broken link)

This is going to destroy a lot of homes if it goes through.

This article is from the Winston-Salem Examiner in North Carolina. How accurately researched and objective is it? Why do people in North Carolina care about a bypass freeway in DFW?

[escanlan]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

This article is from the Winston-Salem Examiner in North Carolina. How accurately researched and objective is it? Why do people in North Carolina care about a bypass freeway in DFW?

ladihawkae is located in this area and is concerned about all local issues such as this. Her post is meant to inform.

I can not provide you the specific link to the Southern sections of the outer loop but here are more interesting links for what is yet to come. This is the Collin County mobility projects site Collin County Commissioners' Court: Collin County Mobility Projects. This will provide a discussion somewhat of the Northern parts of a new outer loop.

In addition to that pay particular attention to the Collin County Thoroughfare plan and the roads that are planned to be converted to toll roads. For example the plan is to take HWY 380 and convert it to a toll road. At one point there were plans to take every major East-West and North-South road and eventually make them into toll roads. It is bad enough that these are even being considered for conversion to toll roads. But add to it that they will most likely be sub-contracted out to these foreign firms that are specializing in creating toll roads.

Keep up the good work of informing people ladihawkae!!

[south-to-west]

It seems like a vast waste of resources to construct that road given the fact that the extension of the George Bush Turnpike will serve that same purpose once completed. One point of contention that I have with the article is that most truck traffic probably wouldn't use the road since most trucks that use Metroplex roads and highways are either going to destinations within the area or originate from the area given the fact that Dallas is the second largest inland port for surface freight in the US.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by escanlan

ladihawkae is located in this area and is concerned about all local issues such as this. Her post is meant to inform.

I can not provide you the specific link to the Southern sections of the outer loop but here are more interesting links for what is yet to come. This is the Collin County mobility projects site Collin County Commissioners' Court: Collin County Mobility Projects. This will provide a discussion somewhat of the Northern parts of a new outer loop.

In addition to that pay particular attention to the Collin County Thoroughfare plan and the roads that are planned to be converted to toll roads. For example the plan is to take HWY 380 and convert it to a toll road. At one point there were plans to take every major East-West and North-South road and eventually make them into toll roads. It is bad enough that these are even being considered for conversion to toll roads. But add to it that they will most likely be sub-contracted out to these foreign firms that are specializing in creating toll roads.

Keep up the good work of informing people ladihawkae!!

I never questioned ladihawkae's motives, just that the link is from a newspaper in North Carolina. I would expect more solid information from a more local source.

I would also like to know what source you get this information about HWY 380 being converted into a Tollroad. The link you provided has nothing mentioning this. On the future thoroughfare map you provided in your link, 380 is listed as a six lane divided surface street. It is already this through most of McKinney. The only Tollroads are the already existent 121 from 75 going WSW, the North Dallas Tollway and the in the future outer loop. Check it out.

http://www.co.collin.tx.us/commissio...ghfarePlan.pdf

I understand that tollroads are a contentious issue. I don't like them either, I have to travel 121 everyday to work. But I have a choice not to get on the tolled part of the road. 4 years ago, I had to travel 121 from McKinney to Frisco down a two lane road that backed up considerably. Today, I have the option of a 6 lane toll way where I can pay money or a 6 lane access road that I can travel on for free and take an extra 5 minutes to wait for the lights that I have to stop at. Even if I never get on the tolled thru lanes, my commute is still vastly improved on what it was.

There is a debate on the future of our roads and having them all being toll roads. I join this debate on seeking alternative solutions. However, spreading false information about local toll roads doesn't help the issue, even if you are against them.

[escanlan]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I never questioned ladihawkae's motives, just that the link is from a newspaper in North Carolina. I would expect more solid information from a more local source.

I would also like to know what source you get this information about HWY 380 being converted into a Tollroad. The link you provided has nothing mentioning this. On the future thoroughfare map you provided in your link, 380 is listed as a six lane divided surface street. It is already this through most of McKinney. The only Tollroads are the already existent 121 from 75 going WSW, the North Dallas Tollway and the in the future outer loop. Check it out.

http://www.co.collin.tx.us/commissio...ghfarePlan.pdf

I understand that tollroads are a contentious issue. I don't like them either, I have to travel 121 everyday to work. But I have a choice not to get on the tolled part of the road. 4 years ago, I had to travel 121 from McKinney to Frisco down a two lane road that backed up considerably. Today, I have the option of a 6 lane toll way where I can pay money or a 6 lane access road that I can travel on for free and take an extra 5 minutes to wait for the lights that I have to stop at. Even if I never get on the tolled thru lanes, my commute is still vastly improved on what it was.

There is a debate on the future of our roads and having them all being toll roads. I join this debate on seeking alternative solutions. However, spreading false information about local toll roads doesn't help the issue, even if you are against them.

My My, a little touchy are we? The computer I first viewed it on was rendering 380 as a dark purple, the same as the legend. I checked another computer and yes it is a lighter violet.

Yes I am against all toll roads as they are nothing more than a method to pick the pockets of the common person all due to the ineptitude of our elected officials. I am also more against any plan to hand out toll roads to a foreign concern instead of keeping them with a US based company, using US based workers to construct and run them. I suppose that is a bad attitude to have? After all, we need the jobs and money to stay here and not elsewhere, don't we?

[TheOlive]

Back to the usual nugget over whether people want to pay higher taxes or tolls I see. But Saintmarks is right (as much as that kills a Jesuit grad to say). The sources are VERY shady. Indeed the main article linked at the beginning has never seen the hand of an editor (where else is Truck Driver capitalized?) and makes blatantly untrue statements. For example the whole "CintraZachry is a foreign corporation" bluster we've been hearing lately. Sure Cintra is out of Spain. But Zachry is out of the faraway land of... "San Antonio".

The debate is good and necessary, but it needs no misinformation in order to be useful.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by escanlan

My My, a little touchy are we? The computer I first viewed it on was rendering 380 as a dark purple, the same as the legend. I checked another computer and yes it is a lighter violet.

Yes I am against all toll roads as they are nothing more than a method to pick the pockets of the common person all due to the ineptitude of our elected officials. I am also more against any plan to hand out toll roads to a foreign concern instead of keeping them with a US based company, using US based workers to construct and run them. I suppose that is a bad attitude to have? After all, we need the jobs and money to stay here and not elsewhere, don't we?

Not touchy at all, just pointing out that spreading false information does not help the issue at hand. Glad to see you are big enough to own up to your error. Helps us touchy people get thru the day a feeling a little less grappled

I will mention again the flip side of the toll issue. Take 121 in Collin County for instance. When I moved here 7 years ago, it was a two lane state road and passed a major regional mall and large corporate heaquarters (EDS, Frito Lay, JCPenney) --- well it was four laned for a short stretch near Preston. But it was a nightmare to drive the two lanes from McKinney to Frisco.

The funding from the state was still years away to finish 121. The powers that be in Collin and in the cities of Frisco, Plano, Allen and McKinney agreed to go toll so the road could be built much sooner.

So, what do we have now? An almost complete route from 75 to the airport (just the interchange at 75 is still to be completed). What was an overcrowded insufficient 2 lane road is now 12 lanes. Yes, 6 of those lanes are tolled and limited access (no stopping at lights) but 6 of those are free. They do stop at lights, but the original two lanes stopped at lights as well.

If this hadn't gone toll, the option to go down the 6 new free lanes (access road) would not be here either, just a grossly insufficient 2 lane road. The free part of 121 is the same as 380... 6 lanes of free traffic that does have lighted intersections.

I would love to get on the limited access part and zoom quicker to work. But all I need to do is leave about 5 minutes earlier and go down the access road all the way, knowing I will have to stop at a handful more lights on the way.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by TheOlive

Back to the usual nugget over whether people want to pay higher taxes or tolls I see. But Saintmarks is right (as much as that kills a Jesuit grad to say). The sources are VERY shady. Indeed the main article linked at the beginning has never seen the hand of an editor (where else is Truck Driver capitalized?) and makes blatantly untrue statements. For example the whole "CintraZachry is a foreign corporation" bluster we've been hearing lately. Sure Cintra is out of Spain. But Zachry is out of the faraway land of... "San Antonio".

The debate is good and necessary, but it needs no misinformation in order to be useful.

The handle "Saintmarks" has nothing to do with the local prep schools. It is the small rural community in GA where I grew up and where my mother still lives. So you can cite me without any remorse