Materialism in HP vs Frisco (Houston, Dallas: upper-class, school, university)

[tyanger]

I nominate this thread for the 2010 Jason Voorhees Award.
It died on April 15th (how appropriate - tax deadline day), and look at it now!


Although it looks like Big G may be about to finally finish it off

[SMS_Parent]

If anything, given that Ivies don't give merit aid, kids from middle-class districts are much more likely to forgo applying to Ivies for economic reasons. I'd guess that's why Mesquite ISD sends most of its vals and sals to state schools.

I don't have a stake in this debate, but for the sake of lower income parents who might be reading this thread, it is important to note that the very generous need based aid policies at Ivy League schools actually encourage high achieving kids from lower and middle income districts to apply to those schools, while kids from higher income families whose families are also paying big $$ house payments or private school payments might have a harder time affording an Ivy education. From the Harvard website:

• One fifth of families qualify for the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, where parents with total incomes less than $60,000 are expected to pay nothing.
• Parents with total incomes between $60,000 and $180,000, and typical assets, are now asked to pay an average of up to 10% of their income.

Fact Sheet

So while the $180,000 per year income family pays $18,000 to attend Harvard, the $200,000 or more per year family often pays the full $50,000+ tab -- thus creating great disincentive for families who have high incomes, but also high housing costs or private high school bills, to choose Ivies.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by tyanger

I nominate this thread for the 2010 Jason Voorhees Award.
It died on April 15th (how appropriate - tax deadline day), and look at it now!


Although it looks like Big G may be about to finally finish it off

I was as surprised as anyone to find this one alive again. I've been working hard to spiral it into "Thread closed" territory. I threw out at least 3 or 4 different highly controversial HSOs. Glad to see someone picking up on my ulterior motive.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Not so many "pesky poor people" to use your words, but did you even read the article about the HP graduate who won the AP scholar award that was posted in this thread?? She moved to the US in 5th grade and knew ZERO English. So yes, the district found a way to educate her, teach her English, and get her to the level where she could take and pass 20 AP exams in just 6-7 years - all without her having parents who already knew English or could navigate HPISD with finesse.

She's not the first - nor the last- kid from HP to be the child of immigrants who scrape together enough money to rent a small apartment near SMU, the middle school, or high school so the kids can attend HPISD. There are more than a handful of kids meeting that criteria in every class, and they find a way to thrive despite not being anywhere near the socioeconomic "average" of the school district.

I'm sorry...but being asian and having a lot of asian friends (in various states), I can tell you that this is not an uncommon story. It certainly is NOT limited to HPISD. And her doing well is more likely due to her family background (priorities on education) than which school she attended. Our val at PSHS (went to Harvard) had the same exact story (China).

I have three friends who went to Stanford/Berkley/Ivy from Agoura High School in California with the exact same story (Korea, Korea, Taiwan).

My ex (Taiwan) had the same story.

One of my friends who went to Duke (then a PhD in physics at Princeton - and she has worked at Los Alamos and is now a prof in Zurich) came to the U.S. from Russia at the age of 9 with ZERO English...she didn't even graduate top 5 at PSHS.

When you look at a mix of demographics, socioeconomics do come into play, but cultural background may be more important.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by SMS_Parent

I don't have a stake in this debate, but for the sake of lower income parents who might be reading this thread, it is important to note that the very generous need based aid policies at Ivy League schools actually encourage high achieving kids from lower and middle income districts to apply to those schools, while kids from higher income families whose families are also paying big $$ house payments or private school payments might have a harder time affording an Ivy education. From the Harvard website:

• One fifth of families qualify for the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, where parents with total incomes less than $60,000 are expected to pay nothing.
• Parents with total incomes between $60,000 and $180,000, and typical assets, are now asked to pay an average of up to 10% of their income.

Fact Sheet

So while the $180,000 per year income family pays $18,000 to attend Harvard, the $200,000 or more per year family often pays the full $50,000+ tab -- thus creating great disincentive for families who have high incomes, but also high housing costs or private high school bills, to choose Ivies.

Cost is one big reason I met so many val/sal academic champs in the UT honors programs. Tuition was free for a lot of us (not that I was anywhere near the top of my class at PSHS - but I met a lot of people who were at their schools).

[stan4]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

And there are way too many Aggies.

Amen. But give me a down-to-earth aggie over a hoity-toit any day.

[lh_newbie]

Originally Posted by Big G

Let me stir the pot further by introducing the "Ivy ratio". Using the posted data, what are the odds of a val or sal from a given district matriculating at an Ivy League school?


Plano: 57%
HP: 40%

If I stretch things a bit and throw in MIT, Caltech, and Stanford, you get:

Plano: 63%
HP: 50%

Let's then factor in the size of the high school - I believe Plano Sr High has ~ 7200 students in 11th and 12th grade, so roughly 3600 in the graduating class. HP has ~ 1900 students in grades 9-12, so roughly 475 in the graduating class.

The odds of a sal/val going to an Ivy league divided by the size of the class is:

Plano: 0.0175
HP: 0.105

My point? Garbage in, garbage out. Why even calculate these "statistics" when the raw data is completely irrelevant? If you have a larger pool of students, the odds that the top students will go to a "harder" college SHOULD go up.

What are the odds that your child will be a Sal or Val in HP? 2 in 475. In Plano? 2 in 3600. So if you have the choice of:

1. A 0.42% chance your kid will end up on top and then a 50% chance they'll go to an Ivy league college -or-
2. A 0.05% chance your kid will end up on top and then a 62% chance they'll go to an Ivy League college

I know I'd pick #1. But again, these statistics are completely irrelevant and made up by massaging a bunch of stupid data that doesn't bear any relevancy on the real world. So please stop playing with your DMN "statistics".

Brian
Brian

[Big G]

Originally Posted by lh_newbie

Let's then factor in the size of the high school - I believe Plano Sr High has ~ 7200 students in 11th and 12th grade, so roughly 3600 in the graduating class. HP has ~ 1900 students in grades 9-12, so roughly 475 in the graduating class.

Wow, those numbers are WAY off. PISD is big, but it's not THAT big. PSHS and PESH have 1300-1400 kids in its graduating classes. PWSH has around 1000.

If you have a larger pool of students, the odds that the top students will go to a "harder" college SHOULD go up.

Good point. A better comparison would be the val/sal of HP vs. the top 5 of PISD schools.

But again, these statistics are completely irrelevant and made up by massaging a bunch of stupid data that doesn't bear any relevancy on the real world.

I (obviously) don't think that's true. What those stats showed was that most kids in DFW have little hope of matriculating at Ivies, even from the top of their classes. Plano is one of the handful of districts that regularly scores Ivy matriculations.

[Big G]

A quick refresher:

Some months ago, I posted this in an analysis of HPISD vs PISD:

My school system sends its top graduates to Ivy League schools year after year. The Ivy League isn't just a possibility, but a near-certainty for top PISD grads. Is my kid going to be a top graduate? We'll see - I'm not holding my breath. The point is, I'm not cutting my kid off from any options by sending him to PISD. HPISD might be somewhat better, but it's hardly 3X better.

hamiltonpl dredged this up out-of-season and incorrectly called BS on this assertion. I then presented concrete proof that PISD does, indeed, send its top grads to Ivy League schools year after year, more often than any other district in the metroplex. Chaos ensued.

[hamiltonpl]

Originally Posted by Big G

A quick refresher:

Some months ago, I posted this in an analysis of HPISD vs PISD:



hamiltonpl dredged this up out-of-season and incorrectly called BS on this assertion. I then presented concrete proof that PISD does, indeed, send its top grads to Ivy League schools year after year, more often than any other district in the metroplex. Chaos ensued.

The only thing you've proven is an unfounded superiority complex found more often in Collin County than other parts of Dallas. Thanks for proving the initial point of the thread.

You have no facts regarding the certainty of acceptance for top PISD grads. The Ivies are not certain for anyone. Not at Exeter, Highland Park or Plano.