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I drive through or to the southern suburbs about once every 2 weeks. I drive all over DFW for work. It wasnt just one time. I have seen nice homes in the southern burbs. I had my guys work on a 7000 sq foot home in Desoto that was in a gated community on a golf course. Im not saying there arent ANY nice areas in the southern burbs. You can find nice areas pretty much anywhere if you have the $$$. But overall the southern burbs is not a place I would want to live in.
jackie neutron im not sure where you received your information from but wikipedia disagrees with you.according to you the southern sector has poor minorities! Really!!! De soto has a median income of $66,986. Cedarhill has a median income of $63,416. Duncanville has a median income of $57,064. Lancaster has a median income of $ 48,996.so what are we disputing here( north vs south) and ( poor minorities are located in the southern sector) ? Did you know that these four cities have a yearly income that are equal or exceeds the northern cities?heres the list. Addison,lewisville,irving, carrollton,farmers branch, mckinney, and the colony. So what are your thoughts of these cities?poor?did you know that cedarhill has a planned gated community (lake ridge) that exceeds $1,000,000,have tons of homes that has a starting price of $300,000, an upscale outdoor mall with stores that are typically found north of dallas.did you know that de soto has tons of new homes with a median starting price of $400,000? Probably not. Have you visited lancaster ( bear creek, parkerville)? Probably not, but if you did you would have saw homes with tons of acerage, complete with horses, yachts, etc that typically cost $200,000. How can poor minorities have homes this expensive, have income this attractive ? Maybe you and your coworkers should go back to the water cooler, rethink things and stop providing others with misleading information.
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Originally Posted by grainraiser
kneal you are wasting your time trying to change peoples mind here. Some folks are convinced that the northern burbs are the end all to be all. I have heard relocation specialist say don't move anywhere but north. Many are even turning on plano because it is not considered old. To many here refuse accept there is a northern bias on this board. I find that the posters who don't live in the northern burbs have no problem recommending newbies move north. Many northerners wouldn't consider recommending any other place but the north regardless of the posters requirements. I have seem posters say they will be working in arlington and frisco is recommended as a place to live. I have heard people trash all of disd schools when in fact the district does have some quality schools. The majority of these folks are transplants who seldom venture south of downtown. Jackie neutron is a prime example. Many think the southern burbs are 90% minorities when they are not. These people would fail a dfw neighborhood history test each and every time. They have no idea where lakeridge or frost farms is located or how nice they area. They have no idea the cedar hill is considered the most scenic burb in dfw. You would have a hard time convincing them that many whites live in the area and there kids go to nice universities just like many of the minorities. I have lived in this area for 47 years and must say the misinformation thrown around here can be scary. I have no problem with the folks who live or want to move north. They have great schools and nice neighborhoods. I simply could not deal with the gridlock traffic and the newer is better general attitude. I know many don't share my same concerns and this fine. I just think if your going to tell a person not to move to a certain area you should at least be able to point out the area on a map or be somewhat familiar with the area. People like dave have now become experts based on a parking lot of a gas station. I simply ask folks to drive around the area before writing it off. Most will be shocked that what they find is totally different from what they heard.
This is true.But the post about murders in Frisco and Plano that precipitated this was stupid.The southern burbs of CH,Desoto,Duncanville,and Lancaster had 14 murders in 08 to the northern burbs of Plano,Allen,McKinney,and Frisco having 11.This even though the northern 4 burbs have 3 times the population of the southern ones.Allen and Frisco both had ZERO murders in 08.Plano led the way,but Plano has a population of almost twice all the 4 southern burbs combined,and had a total of 7 murders.The murder rate in the southern burbs is around 1 per 9000 population.In the northern burbs it is about 1 per 32,000 population.Some people wish to pretend this isn't true.And none of this brings Oak Cliff into it.
Unfortunately for you, all objective media, with absolutely no stake in this discussion contradict your above statement. According to money magazine, personal crime in plano is 3 for every 1000 people. Desoto's and Mansfield is 2 per 1000. Cedar Hill and Duncanville is 3, same as Plano's. These numbers mirror the data from Moderator cut: link removed, please read our terms of service. I posted earlier
You can continue to pretend "this isn't true", but the facts, whether you like it or not, show that you are just as safe in Plano as you are in Cedar Hill, or Desoto
I know lots of you fighting for the southern suburbs live there and I can understand your passion to protect your home town to the end but............Its just a proven fact that the northern suburbs are safer, cleaner, have better schools, less crime, more opportunities for work, nicer houses, and are the preferred place to live in DFW for your average American. Its a useless battle your trying to fight here.
It takes two sides to have a fight, and you have not "proven" any "facts" yet. All you have offered is opinion
I looked at homes in south Dallas. There are some nice neighborhoods there if schools aren't a concern. But I also like to live near where I work and more employers are located on the north side. So I found a neighborhood inside the loop on the north side. The homes are modestly priced, the neighborhood safe and diverse -- on my street it's about 50-50 black to white.
btw, just saw this DMN article:
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" The number of black children attending DISD schools has reached its lowest point since 1965.
The movement mirrors, on a smaller scale, massive white flight from the district in the 1970s.
Black students formed a majority in Dallas schools through the 1980s and '90s. Over the last 10 years, though, the number of black children has fallen by nearly 20,000, or about a third. Meanwhile, Hispanic children have filled their seats as the district's overall enrollment remains fairly flat at about 157,000.
Today, about 41,000 black students attend DISD schools. They make up 26 percent of the district compared with 106,000 Hispanic children, or 68 percent. White students are 5 percent of the district.
The trend seen in Dallas schools is part of a larger national move away from inner cities for many black families, but the plunge is steeper in Dallas ISD than other urban districts in Texas and is among the biggest declines nationally.
Interviews with dozens of parents reveal that the exodus is not fueled by a single reason, but by myriad forces including issues of race, class, perceptions of problems within DISD, an explosion of charter schools and the quest for the American dream in the suburbs.
...Specifically, black parents most often mentioned the following reasons:
•The perception that Dallas ISD schools offer an inferior education compared with suburban schools, and that the school system is too big and impersonal.
•As Dallas ISD educates a growing number of Hispanic students, many of whom are poor and learning English, some black parents say the district no longer focuses on their children.
•The desire of middle-class blacks to live in bigger, newer, more comfortable homes in the suburbs, away from big-city crime and congestion.
•A growing number of charter schools, which are public schools run by private groups.
•Many of Dallas' traditionally black neighborhoods are aging, and young Hispanic families are moving in to replace them and having children.
...Regional student statistics show black families are sending their children to suburban districts such as Cedar Hill (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Cedar_Hill%2C_Texas - broken link), DeSoto (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/DeSoto%2C_Texas - broken link), Garland (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Garland%2C_Texas - broken link) , Plano (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Plano%2C_Texas - broken link) , Frisco (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Frisco%2C_Texas - broken link) and Mansfield.
...As more black families migrate to the suburbs, figures show white families move farther out. Bray's principal, Robert Johansen, said much of the white exodus from Cedar Hill schools took place in the early 2000s.
"I believe it was because they didn't feel like people looked like them. We still were an exemplary school. We still were performing. They were afraid that there was going to be a change," he said.
This year's preliminary TAKS scores show more than 95 percent of Bray students – black, white and Hispanic alike – passed their reading and math tests, and half or more scored at the higher "commended" level.
There are DISD schools with economic student demographics similar to Bray's that scored as well.
...
•Ten years ago, Dallas ISD had nearly 161,000 students. It was 38 percent black, 52 percent Hispanic and 9 percent white. Today, Dallas enrolls 157,000 students, with 26 percent of them black, 68 percent Hispanic and 5 percent white.
•Black enrollment in Dallas ISD dropped by 19,000, or 31 percent, over the decade. In both raw numbers and percentage change, that's a bigger decline than in Houston, Fort Worth (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Fort_Worth%2C_Texas - broken link) and Austin ISDs.
•DISD's Hispanic enrollment climbed 23,000, or 27 percent. Only Cypress-Fairbanks ISD near Houston and Northside ISD near San Antonio (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/San_Antonio - broken link) added more Hispanic students over the decade.
•During that period, the number of white students dropped the most in Arlington ISD (a loss of 10,500), followed by Mesquite (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Mesquite%2C_Texas - broken link) ISD (10,000), Garland ISD (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Garland_Independent_School_District - broken link) (9,000), Fort Worth ISD (7,500) and Dallas ISD (6,500).
•5,900 black students who live within Dallas ISD's boundaries attend charter schools. Among Texas districts with a sizable black population, only Lancaster, North Forest and La Marque ISDs have a greater share of resident black students attending charter schools.
•Dallas ISD may be losing black students, but the total number of black people living in the Dallas-Fort Worth metro area has surged. According to a new Brookings Institution (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Brookings_Institution - broken link) report, Dallas-Fort Worth gained 159,000 black residents from 2000 to 2008 – second only to Atlanta (http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Atlanta - broken link). The Dallas region also added 597,000 Hispanics, second only to the Riverside, Calif., area.
Unfortunately for you, all objective media, with absolutely no stake in this discussion contradict your above statement. According to money magazine, personal crime in plano is 3 for every 1000 people. Desoto's and Mansfield is 2 per 1000. Cedar Hill and Duncanville is 3, same as Plano's. These numbers mirror the data from Moderator cut: link removed, please read our terms of service. I posted earlier
You can continue to pretend "this isn't true", but the facts, whether you like it or not, show that you are just as safe in Plano as you are in Cedar Hill, or Desoto
Unfortunately for you,you are not addressing what I said.Personal crimes means ALL crimes,from car breakins to burglaries to shoplifting to purse snatching.I addressed the murder rate.If you are going to try and rebut me,at the least try and focus on what I actually said.
I looked at homes in south Dallas. There are some nice neighborhoods there if schools aren't a concern. But I also like to live near where I work and more employers are located on the north side. So I found a neighborhood inside the loop on the north side. The homes are modestly priced, the neighborhood safe and diverse -- on my street it's about 50-50 black to white.
To be honest this is pretty easy to explain. I'm a black with a family and would love to live in the city of Dallas. My problem is the city does not have that many homes in my price range. If you had a 200k budget were would you buy. The city is made up of the affluent, upper middle class and the poor. If your middle class you really don't have alot of options if you want to call Dallas home. I suspect people will start moving back to the city within the next 10 years. Going north will end when they hit Oklahoma and can't go west or south. The only area that has not been developed is the land between Seagoville and Wilmer/Hutchins.
Unfortunately for you,you are not addressing what I said.Personal crimes means ALL crimes,from car breakins to burglaries to shoplifting to purse snatching.I addressed the murder rate.If you are going to try and rebut me,at the least try and focus on what I actually said.
Unfortunately for you, you are wrong... again. Personal crime includes rape, aggravated assault, robbery and MURDER, not ALL crimes.
Crime where no person is physically harmed but property is involved is referred to as (obvious for most) "property crimes". Property crimes per thousand for Cedar Hill is 33, which is (gasp) Lower than Plano's at 34. Desoto's is at 31 per thousand, same as Richardson's. Mansfield's is 22
So if YOU are going to try and "rebut" me, then at the very least get your facts right
Unfortunately for you, you are wrong... again. Personal crime includes rape, aggravated assault, robbery and MURDER, not ALL crimes.
Crime where no person is physically harmed but property is involved is referred to as (obvious for most) "property crimes". Property crimes per thousand for Cedar Hill is 33, which is (gasp) Lower than Plano's at 34. Desoto's is at 31 per thousand, same as Richardson's. Mansfield's is 22
So if YOU are going to try and "rebut" me, then at the very least get your facts right
Sorry,this is the first time I am wrong,so your "again" is BSMy claim was that serious crime rates are higher in the southern burbs.You have not come close to disproving that.But my bad on the definition of personal crime.
You are however,wrong,AGAIN,when you try to claim that the southern burbs are as safe.Personal crime rates are higher in the southern suburbs.Property crime rates are high in the northern burbs,because *GASP* if you a criminal looking for an area to operate in,are you going to look at the poorer areas,or the more well to do areas?If I am a burglar in Dallas deciding whether to head to Desoto or to Plano to do some burglarizing,which place is likely to make more sense from a monetary position?
Here are the violent crime rates,defined as murder/manslaughter,rape,robbery,assault for the areas being discussed.These are violent crimes per 100K population.
Cedar Hill- 267
Desoto- 339
Duncanville-381
Lancaster-358
Allen-79
McKinney-211
Plano-227
Frisco-107
Source:Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
Despite your claims,those don't look near the same.So,like I said before and again now,the southern suburbs have a higher violent crime rate than the northern ones.Even though the population in the northern burbs is almost 3 times that of the southern ones,which should have led to at least a closer rate with the southern ones.Most of the time larger populations=higher crime rates.
But you got me on the definition snafu.That's what I get for trying to rush a post out before going out to work in the orchard.Enjoy your "victory"
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My claim was that serious crime rates are higher in the southern burbs.You have not come close to disproving that.But my bad on the definition of personal crime.
