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Ok, I'm going to admit, I've only read the last three posts, but that is because I have to leave for work in a minute and can't delve my full attention to this thread just now. However, from what I have read, I will agree it is demographics that hurts Xenia.
Also, the other problem comes from the fact that Xenia was hit by the tornado in 1974, not 2007 (like Greensburg). The design and build standards in '74 were far less superior then than today. I'd imagine that if (God forbid), Xenia was hit by another F-5, in its downtown district, it would be redone in a completely different manner than in '74.
Furthermore, there is the problem of renewel vs. build-a-strip-mall-on-town's-edge mentalities in this area. Until Xenia starts seeing an increase in wealth (which, by the way, may start happening soon, as the 2009 census estimates had Xenia's growth outpace Beavercreek's by about 3%), it won't see a focus on it's historical downtown. Whether that wealth comes before or after the school's consistently perform well, we'll see.
Finally, I like to see other NOVA transplants out in Ohio. I'm originally from Woodbridge/Dale City (which has changed drastically since I left) and live between Columbus's University District and Beavercreek. That, however, is more based on constraints than choice, so if I had to choose where to live, it'd be in a more urban environment, though one a little more mature (and maybe wealthier) than Columbus's University District. And yes, Reston, as well as much of that part of Fairfax and Loudoun Counties, are very stepfordish with McMansions and 3-series Beemers.
I can't believe it's only $219,900. That would barely get you a middle-aged 1-BR condo in the suburbs here.
Schools and cost of living are a big reason for that price. In Oakwood, it'd go for around 450K. Around Falls Church, probably getting close to seven figures.
I apologize for stirring up negative feelings within you
For some reason -- after moving to Dayton in 1977 and meeting survivors of that tornado, and survivors of other tornadoes that occurred that day in nearby towns -- the hairs on the back of my neck rise just thinking of their descriptions of how horrific that day, and those that followed, were.
But what's "traditional?" Xenia's rebuilt downtown is pretty "traditional" of 1970s construction. Especially of 1970s construction that went up quickly and economically. If the Towne Square had different architecture, you'd never notice the contrast but for the parking lot (and after six years in the Philadelphia area, I'll never see a free parking lot as ugly again).
Also, the other problem comes from the fact that Xenia was hit by the tornado in 1974, not 2007 (like Greensburg). The design and build standards in '74 were far less superior then than today. I'd imagine that if (God forbid), Xenia was hit by another F-5, in its downtown district, it would be redone in a completely different manner than in '74.
Agreed. It's unfortunate that the tornado struck Xenia at such an embarrassing time in our nation's urban planning history when people thought such strip malls as Xenia Square were the "wave of the future." I would never wish anything as tragic as the 1974 tornado upon Xenia (or any other community for that matter) ever again, but I agree that if Greensburg, KS had been hit in 1974 with Xenia, OH being hit in 2007, the redevelopment differences would be like night and day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightflyer
Furthermore, there is the problem of renewel vs. build-a-strip-mall-on-town's-edge mentalities in this area. Until Xenia starts seeing an increase in wealth (which, by the way, may start happening soon, as the 2009 census estimates had Xenia's growth outpace Beavercreek's by about 3%), it won't see a focus on it's historical downtown. Whether that wealth comes before or after the school's consistently perform well, we'll see.
I was actually just going to point out the rapid growth that has occurred in Xenia between 2000 and 2009 compared to the decline between 1990 and 2000 as an indicator that demographics may finally be starting to shift for the better. The town still does have quite a bit of historic charm in several residential areas, from what I've seen, especially in and around North King Street and the Detroit Street corridor. The most expensive historic home I could find, a very luxurious one at that directly across the street from the mansion on North King near West Church, was only $330,000. I'm only 23, but I can definitely say that the trend in my generation is to pursue what our grandparents liked in terms of walkable "in-town" sorts of neighborhoods. Our parents' generation (Baby Boomers) moved out to the suburbs in droves thinking that was the best decisions for their children (us) at the time Generation X and Generation Y has already begun to fuel a rebirth of cities large and small across the country, and I can very easily see myself and other peers raising our families in a place like Xenia. However, as I said all the friendly people and wholesome residential neighborhoods in the world can't make up for an abysmal downtown, which is why I broached this subject. I wanted to provoke thought about what, if anything, should be done to this prime property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightflyer
Finally, I like to see other NOVA transplants out in Ohio. I'm originally from Woodbridge/Dale City (which has changed drastically since I left) and live between Columbus's University District and Beavercreek. That, however, is more based on constraints than choice, so if I had to choose where to live, it'd be in a more urban environment, though one a little more mature (and maybe wealthier) than Columbus's University District. And yes, Reston, as well as much of that part of Fairfax and Loudoun Counties, are very stepfordish with McMansions and 3-series Beemers.
Not to cause offense as someone who isn't originally from Northern Virginia, but I'm very unhappy here. I'd imagine Dale City is leaps and bounds different from Reston, but that "Stepford" vibe is alive and well here (and people creepily enough are proud of that). The area continues to become more congested, more sprawling, more expensive, and more, well, undesirable. The reason why so many people like me moved here was because DC was one of the few metro areas churning career opportunities out the wazoo during the recession. Unfortunately a good job can't satisfy you for long if you're unhappy with your surroundings. I look at a place like Xenia and feel like it would be a great fit. Beautiful historic homes for under $300,000? That's unheard of.
For some reason -- after moving to Dayton in 1977 and meeting survivors of that tornado, and survivors of other tornadoes that occurred that day in nearby towns -- the hairs on the back of my neck rise just thinking of their descriptions of how horrific that day, and those that followed, were.
But what's "traditional?" Xenia's rebuilt downtown is pretty "traditional" of 1970s construction. Especially of 1970s construction that went up quickly and economically. If the Towne Square had different architecture, you'd never notice the contrast but for the parking lot (and after six years in the Philadelphia area, I'll never see a free parking lot as ugly again).
Thanks for the tip about the movie. My therapist has also demanded that I watch "Sicko" to better understand why the health care system is so flawed, so I'll add this onto my "must-see" list.
I can't even begin to imagine who traumatic enduring a tornado must have been for any of the victims during the outbreak, and I was by no means trying to come off as condescending or as someone who sought to minimize what they went through. I was just trying to say that while the Xenia Square strip mall may have been the "solution" in the mid-1970s to get Xenia back on its feet, nearly 40 years later times have changed, and it's in Xenia's best interest long-term to redevelop that parcel somehow (even if it's not as elaborate as the "town center" I envisioned) in order to continue to grow and prosper.
I may be a unique case, but one thing that's important to me in considering my next hometown is that I love not only the home but that the home is walking distance to a "traditional downtown business district." What do I mean by that? What I mean is imagine the two tiny blocks of historic commercial buildings now near the courthouse, and then expand that by several times to create an authentic-feeling downtown. I envision a good example for Xenia to emulate would be Bedford Falls from "It's a Wonderful Life." It's communities like those across the country that are "en vogue" right now and probably will be in the future as people realize again how satisfying it can be to live, work, shop, dine, play, etc. all without having to sit in traffic to get to everything. Demand for this sort of lifestyle is so heavy here in Northern Virginia that even those upscale projects (i.e. the one with the $1,900/month 1-BR apartments) are selling/leasing more rapidly than developers can keep up with.
I just don't personally think a future Xenia should consider a KFC and a KMart to be their "downtown."
I read through the whole thread and didn't see this mentioned, so forgive me if someone already has...
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Originally Posted by RestonRunner86
I'm not some opportunist developer type looking to take advantage of or swindle a town. I just look to the newest wave of "urban renewal" being tearing down places like Xenia Square and replacing them with close retrofits of what used to be traditional "town centers." Near me here in Northern Virginia the area grew very quickly and never thought ahead for anything, so now they are putting up these "faux downtowns" everywhere to give people a place to stroll around, grab a bite to eat, see a movie, sit on a park bench, do some shopping, etc. A lot of people in America are now realizing that they miss the sort of cute downtown environments that prior generations used to enjoy, so that's why I broached this subject with Xenia.
[sic]
I know most of these newer faux "town centers" are high-end, but I'm not necessarily advocating for that, given the demographic make-up of Xenia. The buildings fronting Main Street would be built to closely resemble the existing storefronts across from the courthouse/city hall so that the downtown would seem to "flow" instead of suddenly hitting parking lots and fast-food places. The storefronts would be home to 90% mom-and-pop stores and local eateries and 10% chains (preferably ones unique to the region to generate interest in people coming into town from surrounding areas). The existing Hallmark and other small stores in the strip mall could find a new home in the storefronts. K-Mart would be kaput, but maybe they could build a new store outside of town (the business overall isn't doing that hot anyways, though). The park right behind the stores (and atop the underground parking garage) would have a covered outdoor skating rink that would double as a bandshell in the warmer months with free concerts. There could be "jumping fountains" for the kids to run through and enjoy on warmer days. There would be annual events here aimed to bring the town together. The dead-center of the new "old" buildings along the north side of West Main would have a large arched entry between two buildings for access into the rear park. Behind the park would be a small side street fronted by three-story middle-class townhomes. Then you'd have a rear alley that would service both those townhomes and the two-story single-family detached homes along the south side of West Church.
We've actually got one of these about 15-20 miles away from downtown Xenia, called The Greene. Of course, it was built on top of a razed forest and not in an existing urban area. Still I doubt the local economy could support yet another mall-like setting and I just don't see people flocking to Xenia to visit such a place.
On a related note, there's a giant fountain in the center of The Greene that you'll find tons of kids playing in all summer long.
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RestonRunner86
I may be a unique case, but one thing that's important to me in considering my next hometown is that I love not only the home but that the home is walking distance to a "traditional downtown business district." What do I mean by that? What I mean is imagine the two tiny blocks of historic commercial buildings now near the courthouse, and then expand that by several times to create an authentic-feeling downtown.
There are fragments of this kind of experience around the Miami Valley. But alas, there is nothing around the Miami Valley today that is exactly like what you are looking for.
Part of the reason, as I mentioned, is destruction for the sake of "newness". People in the Dayton area are part of an incredibly conformist "hive mind" and most people around Dayton rejected urbanism 40 years ago due to white flight and infatuation with futurism. I know this - I grew up here, I saw it first hand, and it's why I fled the area years ago to start my life.
Xenia's downtown would have the size to support what you are looking for, but it was gutted years ago with a dumb downtown mall, the region is already overbuilt with "lifestyle centers", and a business case for what you want for Xenia probably could not be made in the forseeable future unless the Dayton region's economics shift drastically upward.
When/if you are in Xenia in the future, just check out the center of town (US 68/Main Street) for proof. There is a failing (or maybe closed by now) antique shop in a bank on the southeast corner. You will be hard pressed to find a variety of services in that downtown. It's just *dead*. No vitality, except for traffic on the way to Wal-Mart or Central State. Drive around the neighborhoods close in to downtown. A lot of it is Section 8 territory.
The other two area cities that have the right size but are economically devastated and are unattractive and somewhat unsafe - Springfield, Middletown - have the right size for what you want, but they have declined so much that they are not viable as intact cities.
Tipp City is usually mentioned as being the most authentic, intact, complete small town experience around Dayton. It's not as big as you'd like, though.
There are other charming small towns around Dayton that have elements of "Normal Rockwell type" small town aesthetics: West Milton, West Alexandria, Bellbrook, Waynesville, Farmersville, Germantown, and Miamisburg.
Oakwood is an older close-in original suburb of Dayton, and probably has the most complete, walkable "town" experience around here with all services, but it's not a separate, autonomous town, it's more or less a better continuance of South Dayton and is a suburb. The "best" rural small town architecture around here generally sucks - everything cool (assuming it ever existed) has been removed. There was never much of a tradition of grand limestone and granite public and office buildings in the cities around Dayton, and except for Xenia and Springfield, the small towns around Dayton were always primarily farming and trading centers. We're talking about a fabric of small, humble towns with small aspirations.
Lebanon south of Dayton is a nice looking small town, and aesthetically has some of what you are looking for, but the town core is nothing but antique and craft shops and places for weekend tourists to spend their money.
So that's basically the list that you have to work with - you'll have to pick from this set. I may have left a few nice towns out.
I'd recommend perhaps getting on Flickr and searching for images from each of these towns, and making a short list to inspect when you come to the area.
[quote=SteelCityRising;16105504]I'm naturally inquisitive and love to spend free time cruising around to different communities across this nation of ours via the "Bird's Eye View" feature on Bing Maps. I've always been curious about Ohio and really enjoyed a brief jaunt to Cincinnati a few summers ago to visit a friend. I've heard that Xenia was hit pretty hard by a tornado a few decades ago, so I wanted to see if this historic city had any remnants of "history" left to it.
I'm supposing the city's original "downtown" area was centered around the intersection of Main (U.S. Route 42) and Detroit (U.S. Route 68), as there seems to be some beautiful historic building (county courthouse? city hall?) on the NE corner. Apparently this structure survived the tornado. Directly across Main Street is one small block of cute-looking storefronts along East Main Street along with one block along South Detroit Street. Then there's the downright ugly---the Xenia Square Shopping Center, which features a HUGE surface parking lot facing Main Street with what looks to be a run-down strip mall featuring a KMart, Fulmer, Hallmark, and Rite-Aid with a KFC, Arby's, and a few drive-thru banks fronting Main Street. I have a feeling I already know my answer, but was this monstrosity laid out as a "solution" after the tornado destroyed the beautiful older buildings that probably once stood here? There's also a pair of ugly mid-rise buildings flanking the western edge of the strip mall (nursing homes?) Continuing down West Main Street are more chain restaurants, gas stations, parking lots, etc.
Further down East Main Street all I see are parking lots and so-so homes.
I notice there are some very attractive historic-looking buildings throughout the town as well, though, that apparently survived the tornado. There's a building on the NE corner of East Church & Edison that looks like a library or a post office. There's a beautiful stone church and some adjoining historic homes along East Market Street.
I didn't start this thread to make a mockery of your community. I just genuinely wanted to know if the lack of any identifiable downtown business district I see is indeed the direct result of the tornado, and, if so, why the town took the "cheap" way out via those ugly parking lots and strip malls instead of rebuilding its history? I'm a native of a small town near Scranton, PA that also tore down half its downtown for parking lots, fast-food places, drive-thru banks, etc., and now that they realize they should have instead worked towards historic preservation it's too late.
Do you all think Xenia would be supportive of that Xenia Town Square strip mall being razed and replaced with one of those newer faux "lifestyle centers" you see in the suburbs of many parts of the country? I can envision three-story brick, stone, and tudor-styled buildings fronting West Main Street between North Detroit and Church Streets. These buildings would house ground-level retail stores, restaurants, and offices with condos/apartments in the upper two floors. There can be an underground garage for parking. The parcel is plenty large enough for a large park, and to complement the existing low-density residential neighborhood along West Church Street to the rear of the property maybe new single-family homes (or townhomes) with rear off-street parking via an alleyway would work?
I just explored Xenia online and thought back to how beautiful it must have been at one point in time before the tornado hit. Now other than those two immediate blocks near the center of town it looks like the rest of the community largely went the route of "urban renewal" and suburbanization, both of which are curse words in my dictionary for a once-proud historic city. I think real estate redevelopment is going to be a future career path of mine, and a site like this seems like a prime opportunity. Why hasn't this parcel been redeveloped yet? Do people in Xenia find this massive strip mall downtown to be attractive? Is the town too poor to consider anything better? It just seems like Xenia is the type of place that has so much to offer but has been forgotten about.
"Downtown" Xenia?
98%of Xenia was destroyed on April 3,1974.I was almost 10 years old and watched the tornado(3joined together to make an F5)destroy downtown area. The downtown area was never the same.The area you referred to as town square was built out of that disaster to draw people back to the downtown area.I remember both as a kid and high school student the parades we had,the street fair.Xenia was a wonderful town to grow up in. I moved away some 20+years ago.Still have lots of family in the Xenia/Beavercreek area.Entire Greene County actually. Both of my parents,myself and my oldest son was born at Greene Memorial Hospital. Love the town and the people.No matter where I may live Xenia will always be home in my heart. Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!Xenia pride. And actually the main intersection used to me hwy 35/68/42. My great grandparents lived out off US42 toward Wilberforce.Stevenson Rd. My great grandfather was the one who struck the covered bridge in Oct of 1977 with me as a passenger.I heard the county finally replaced that ole covered bridge,but left it standing as a historical landmark.I haven't been back to look. There was a lot of family history for us attached to that old red covered one lane bridge. My great grandfather built the orginal house at 1910 Stevenson Rd.
I remember the flooding in '72,and if memory serves me,we had a horrible flood a few years before that one as well.My parents lived on 2nd street then,when Kroger's used to be where the McD's is now.and Krohler Furniture Factory was right down the street. My dad worked there as a stock handler when I was born. My step mom worked there years later in the fabric/sewing dept. See this is a trip down memory lane for me.Some of it was wonderful,some not. The floods,the city barely was rebuilding/recovering from when the tornado hit and redestroyed buildings downtown. You have to remember,was the development was in the 70's was way different than it is today.Even when I come home for a visit, a lot of the old landmarks I recall are gone now. It's a shame really.Some things are the same,and hopefully,always will be,some are gone forever. Did anyone find out for me if the county actually replaced that and left the old covered one land bridge out on Stevenson Rd? I would really like to know.Pictures would be wonderful and anyone could goggle and post those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohioan58
Xenia did have a traditional downtown and it was centered exactly where current appearances would suggest, at the corner of Detroit Avenue and Main Street. The thing is, what a person from a larger city would consider a downtown is generally not on the same scope in a small city like Xenia.
All of the new development, including the shopping center, that you're describing are blocks that were razed after the 1974 tornado hit the town.
I don't know if there would be any support for the kind of redevelopment that you're suggesting. Most area people have gotten used to Xenia as it is now and the demographics of the town argue against high end developments right in town.
Here, I found this - a collection of "before and after" photos of Xenia architecture relative to the tornado: 1974: Xenia Tornado Photo Album
This picture shows the downtown city hall tower visible in the distance, and illustrates exactly why redeveloped Xenia architecture in town sucks so badly today.
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"Downtown"
