Dayton is dying faster than ever. (Centerville, Troy: renting, cheap house, neighborhood)

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by bam989863

I too prefer city living. I still own a house in Dayton on Parkview Ave in the Eastern Hills neighborhood. It is a beautiful home built in the early twenties sits right on a park. It is a working class neighborhood made up of a few teachers, plumbers, electricians, police officers, and even engineers. A family member currently rents it from me. I will concede that Dayton is not what it once was and there are many undesirable parts, I just think the threads that get started on a monthly basis to bash the city of Dayton are excessive and do not deliver a full and fair evaluation of Dayton and it's surrounding suburbs.

Eastern Hills is nice, as is Linden Heights where I used to live. I have a home there I put out to rent when I moved to Cincinnati for personal reasons. There are several nice areas in the city of Dayton even on the west side. Until the city can begin to stabilize from it's massive manufacturing losses I am afraid the downward spiral it's in will continue. I am not here to bash the city, but telling the truth about it isn't bashing. If anything I will sing Dayton's praises where appropriate.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Mr./Mrs/Ms J. Price joined in June and posted on 8/2 that he/she returned to Dayton in July to
'
"intern brother-in -law, 07/09/12,"

I'm guessing "intern" is supposed to be "inter" (bury, as in funeral).

This thread starts out:

"Was in Dayton in July, for brothers going away ceremoy"

Again, I'm guessing funeral, same person. Good reason for being interested in property values.

(Just thought I'd mention that.)

[bam989863]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Eastern Hills is nice, as is Linden Heights where I used to live. I have a home there I put out to rent when I moved to Cincinnati for personal reasons. There are several nice areas in the city of Dayton even on the west side. Until the city can begin to stabilize from it's massive manufacturing losses I am afraid the downward spiral it's in will continue. I am not here to bash the city, but telling the truth about it isn't bashing. If anything I will sing Dayton's praises where appropriate.

I went to St. Anthony school in your old neighborhood. I finished 8th grade in 1996 and at that time the whole neighborhood from Highland Park all the way down St. Charles Avenue was packed full of large Catholic Families with children everywhere. Even our principal lived in the neighborhood with his four children. We would play football every day after school at Highland Park in the fall, in the Spring we would play baseball at the park. It was truly a wonderful place to grow up. The neighborhood has definitely changed but there are still many families living in the neighborhood, I still have family there and my daughter was baptized at St. Anthony Church last December. I think my affection for this area of the city can sometimes cloud my current perception of its current state. I am aware of my inherent bias and realize that Dayton is not what is once was.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by bam989863

The neighborhood has definitely changed but there are still many families living in the neighborhood,

I think the foreclosure crisis, combined with people leaving Dayton have diminished LH from what it once was. The neighborhood definitely changes from block to block. Some blocks are shady, some are still chock full of families and kids. Overall, it's still a family neighborhood. The section of the hood from Saint Nicholas to Highland along Lorain is probably the worst area. Of course anything along Xenia has seen better days. Wyoming seems to see it's share of robberies at the UDF over near Bowen and Wyoming. But, otherwise, it's a great neighborhood. Saint Anthony's still has a lot of kids, and a lot of them live right in Linden Heights. Overall, I could have stayed in Linden Heights. I think the thing that turned me off the most being a transplant to the neighborhood was people tended to treat us as outsiders. Sort of provincial. But understanding we were outsiders in LH, which is somewhat of a closed neighborhood. Not unlike the west side of Cincinnati.

[J. PRICE]

We had high hopes of returning to Dayton to live, but as we explore the city more, we see no hopes for the future. The county side looks more promising.

[Dayton Sux]

^
The countryside is great!

Where are you looking?

[J. PRICE]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Salem is in pretty bad shape along several sections.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by J. PRICE

J. PRICE--

There's only a few times in a blue moon that I agree with TJ123 on anything since his personality quirks have warranted my placing him on my ignore list for the better part of a year (and counting). But he's onto something. Having gone up Salem to the Sears liquidation sale, saying "Salem is in bad shape in some sections" is actually the understatement of the century. Some parts look like they've been bombed out. And with Sears closed now, there's nothing left of what used to be the Salem Mall. Meanwhile I expect Trotwood and Englewood next to be caught in the same death spiral of poverty, joblessness, and crime that has held west Dayton back for decades now.

Until we can work by rebuilding the city from the ground up - and I think it starts with the families - then there's no credible way to turn the while thing around.

[J. PRICE]

Was in Daytou to Bury brother-in-law.

[Dayton Sux]

Just ask "Dayton Sux", he can verify how bad it is here now

...and here I just did a small post on this thread!

Well, I don't actually live IN Dayton. But it's sort of fun to study.

Is Dayton dying faster than ever? David Rusk in his "Cities Without Suburbs" identified Dayton as a city "beyond the point of no return" (based on his criteria). But there are different ways to measure this, I guess. Or different ways to interpret it.

One way is to look at the census population numbers. The 100% count:

Here they are:

1980: 193,536
1990: 182,044
2000: 166,179
2010: 141,527

or putting it another way:

1980-1990: 11,492 decline
1990-2000: 15,865 decline
2000-2010: 24,652 decline
...or an average of 17,000/per decade decline in population, or one could see that, over 30 years, an accelerating rate of decline (the numbers lost increase with each census).


However, recent population estimates show increases:

2010: 141,257 (census count)
2012: 143,258 (estimate)
2013: 143,355 (estimate)

or

2010-2012: 1,731 increase in population
2012-2013: 97 increase in population

These are just two data points that run against a very long range trend. But it could mean that Dayton City may have hit bottom (though I'll bet this was said before). I guess we'll see in 2020.

Raw population numbers are an imperfect measure because "decline" might be simple demographics (changes in family structure, declining fertility rates, etc)

Other ways:
1. measuring households vs people. A decline in households would be a better measure of "abandonment" depopulation vs "demographic" depopulation. An increase would be a very positive sign that decline has stopped.
2. measuring occupied vs vacant dwelling units
3. measuring the decline in the number dwelling units
4. measuring the decline business establishments (esp "neighborhood retail").

Of course this is all wonky stuff. A lot of what is posted is what we see when we see the city, anecdotal and atmospheric, based on our historical experiences with the place, what Thomas Hardy called "old association" with a place. For me the place is getting worse...in terms of physical condition. "Worse" could also mean demolitions and the thinning-out & erosion of the built environment...though that end-state would be preferable from a safety/public health POV to a city full of derelict structures.