Sinclair Community College's Master Plan (Dayton, Kettering: apartments, crime, houses)

[SWOH]

Just read on the DDN site today. I think it could make a great catalyst for downtown Dayton and Wright-Dunbar if it comes to fruition. And a lot of the ideas are no-brainers, like closing Fourth Street from Perry to Roberts and demolishing the parking lots between Fourth and Fifth to create more greenspace on campus:

Sinclair looks to a greener downtown future | www.daytondailynews.com

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by OHKID

Just read on the DDN site today. I think it could make a great catalyst for downtown Dayton and Wright-Dunbar if it comes to fruition. And a lot of the ideas are no-brainers, like closing Fourth Street from Perry to Roberts and demolishing the parking lots between Fourth and Fifth to create more greenspace on campus:

Sinclair looks to a greener downtown future | www.daytondailynews.com

Hi OHKID--

I'm mixed on the idea, leaning towards liking it though.

If Sinclair goes forward with the plan, it looks like it will be part of a permanent shift for downtown away from being a business center. The number one thing propping up downtown is already government (the courthouses, administration, bankruptcy court, etc.), and growth of Sinclair in its current location would accelerate that trend. Which means that downtown would never be nearly as hopping as it was in the past.

In order to see some spillover benefit to the rest of downtown though, Sinclair would have to change from being a community college to more of a real college, at least feel-wise. Get some reason for the students to spend more time downtown rather than simply driving there, going to class for three hours a day, and then driving back home. (Or taking the bus; same issue). In short, how to shift Sinclair away from being a commuter campus.

[Dayton Sux]

Not too much detail in that article, so can't judge the urban design aspect, which is pretty key in this case.

First, there's a conflict with the desire for greenspace and the desire for parking.

Sinclair is sort of sealed off and internalized in the way you get around on campus. No need to go outside. Pulling it closer to downtown is a big urban design challenge. Creating some sort of park area or landscaped area along the east side of campus will reinforce the division between Sinclair and downtown as it would read more as a barrier than as connection, in a part of town that is already sort of desolate.

South of Third, the last "downtownish" north-south street is Ludlow. Wilkinson and Perry were hit by the "Center City West" urban renewal project, and you are in an environment of big parking lots and modernist building set back from the street and sidewalk buffered by parking and landscaping (exception is that old church @ 4th and Wilkinson. Essentially a suburban spatial environment...buildings floating in space.... on a city street grid.

So you have to pass this cold windy no-mans-land to get to Sinclair from the heart of downtown.

5th is a bit better, east of Ludlow, as there's more buidling along it, where you still somewhat get the feeling of being on a city street.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Hi OHKID--

I'm mixed on the idea, leaning towards liking it though.

If Sinclair goes forward with the plan, it looks like it will be part of a permanent shift for downtown away from being a business center. The number one thing propping up downtown is already government (the courthouses, administration, bankruptcy court, etc.), and growth of Sinclair in its current location would accelerate that trend. Which means that downtown would never be nearly as hopping as it was in the past.

In order to see some spillover benefit to the rest of downtown though, Sinclair would have to change from being a community college to more of a real college, at least feel-wise. Get some reason for the students to spend more time downtown rather than simply driving there, going to class for three hours a day, and then driving back home. (Or taking the bus; same issue). In short, how to shift Sinclair away from being a commuter campus.

Sinclair was able to develop in the first place because of two things: 1. community need (wish) and 2. available space.

Regarding the need:

Back when Dayton had it's quarter of a million people (a goodly portion of them in the western parts of the city), the only place locally for advanced education was the University of Dayton, which was funded by tuition and was religious. U.D. tried very hard to maintain it's religious identity while trying to accommodate a sizable non-Catholic student element as well as provide something lesser than a four-year degree, but there were still such matters as tuition. Someone who wanted something beyond a high school diploma could pay for something like housing at Miami or tuition at U.D. Period.

Wright State is not really convenient to anything but the eastern parts of Dayton. It's not really local to Dayton as a whole or points west. It's four miles from Third & Main just to the V.A. Add that to the distance from Third & Main to Wright State. People wished for a government funded school downtown. Wright State's location was a disappointment to many.

Regarding the space:

Many, many people lived where the campus is. And, someone said the area's old, etc., tear everything down and build new apartment houses and the like so people have decent places to live. Once the people who were displaced found some place else to live, there was no reason to move back downtown -- a minor detail urban renewal jerks overlooked, but which was resoundingly proven in the urban renewal of the East End.

The space was there as what was originally suggested was never built, a wide open space for something relatively big to occupy it.

The map diagrams look good. As for the downtown "hopping again"; the hopping was based to a great extent on shopping from outlying areas. Shopping patterns are changing. Kroger sells furniture.

[Ohioan58]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Hi OHKID--
In order to see some spillover benefit to the rest of downtown though, Sinclair would have to change from being a community college to more of a real college, at least feel-wise. Get some reason for the students to spend more time downtown rather than simply driving there, going to class for three hours a day, and then driving back home. (Or taking the bus; same issue). In short, how to shift Sinclair away from being a commuter campus.

I was going to snark: put some bars in, look at UD.

But I realized, the immediate Sinclair area could probably really use some mixed retail (restaurants, bars, coffee shops, etc) to provide the kind of self containment you're describing. It is an island. I'm pretty typical in that I never attended Sinclair, and I have therefore never ever had a reason to visit the campus. There's nothing in that patch BUT Sinclair, so Sinclair is only used by those who have a reason to take classes, teach or work at Sinclair.

[SWOH]

^I've taken a class downtown at Sinclair in my past, and I will admit it is fairly all-inclusive there. Not much reason to venture anywhere besides the parking garage, the campus buildings, and the skywalk. Although students do venture into downtown sometimes to eat at places like Gold Star, Great Steak, etc.

I think this project would be a great way to help Sinclair build community internally. I know we have had people pass through this forum asking for housing near Sinclair, and our response has been similar to "uhhhh.... move to Kettering." At the very least, Sinclair could use a few restaurants and shops nearby for basics, and building a front door for these places to locate near would help.

Then maybe apartments will crop up downtown that will be targeted for Sinclair students, Then maybe some bars and clubs will open up, and then maybe it will become vibrant. The article seems to suggest they want to try to accomplish this more in the Wright-Dunbar district, but to me such development seems more feasible by redeveloping the surface lot at the corner of Perry and Third. Knowing Sinclair students, getting them to go to Wright-Dunbar will require a unairconditioned skywalk!

[Natural510]

I like the plan, but they'll have to step up police patrols in the area to keep people safe there at night. We used to frequent the Santana's Caribbean club at Third & St. Clair when it was open. Reggae & salsa nights were good, but the hip-hop night I attended a brawl broke out which spilled onto the street. It must've gone on for a good 20 minutes with no rollers in sight. If Sinclair students were being targeted for robbery, there would be no one to stop them.

[Dayton Sux]

^
wow,someone else who went to Santanas. They had a nice dancefloor..small, but it seemed a good place to dance.

@@@

Sinclair seemed to me to be something out of a sci-fi movie where the atmopshere somehow became contaminated and everyone was forced to live in these self-contained structures where you never had to go outside.

@@@

Self contained does not begin to describe the place

They could have put dedicated off-ramps from US35 direct to the Sinclair Parking Garage, so you'd never have to reach the surface.

Park your car, take the habitrail across to the campus, and then use the corridors/skywalks to move between the buildings.

Here is another campus designed by Edward Durrel Stone (the archicet of Sinclair and the Montgomery County office tower across 3rd)
SUNY Albany

...and I lived in a dorm complex designed by him, when at UofK.

Stone was probably one of the more reviled architects (within the proffession) during his heyday, yet beloved by his Big Buisness/Big Government clients.

[Ohioan58]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

^
Sinclair seemed to me to be something out of a sci-fi movie where the atmopshere somehow became contaminated and everyone was forced to live in these self-contained structures where you never had to go outside.

ROTFLMFAO.

Sinclair's architecture is reminiscent of government buildings in Conquest of the Planet of the Apes, where there's this stark title at the start that says "North America – 1991".

The Dayton Convention Center (built in '71, I think) struck me exactly the same way when it opened. It seemed very stark back then.

The crime in the immediate area is shocking even to me. Dayton is such a ghetto.

[SWOH]

I know it sounds weird, but I actually think Sinclair's campus integrates well into the city. It's not very connected to it, which is an issue, but the whole area around it has little connectivity because it is surrounded by freeways and government complexes. And the buildings look good with the skyline - they give it a lot of depth.