Grafton Ave. and Deleware (Dayton, Delaware: 2013, house, transfer)

[Dayton Sux]

Do the resident of the closed streets have a key and need to stop each time and open the gate ?

They do not. The concept isnt to totally lock the street, but make the neighborhood into a set of defacto cul-de-sacs. See the graphics at this link.

Though the residents didn't have keys, I think the fire dept. or EMS had keys to the gates though. I used to know someone who lived on Grafton and I'll e-mail him the question.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

Nope, it was defensible space, in Oscar Newmans own words.

In the Five Oaks community of Dayton, Ohio, during 1991, violent crimes increased by 77 percent, robberies by 77 percent, vandalism by 38 percent, and overall crime by 16 percent. Drug dealers, pimps, and prostitutes had taken over the streets with abandon. Gun shots could be heard at all times of the day and night; racing cars and blaring boom-boxes disturbed everyone's sleep. Children stayed locked up in their homes.

Sorry, no, not 1991. Elizabeth did her talking and agitating somewhere around 1978. She held that priority board seat for many years. either personally or through her husband. I quit running around about 1981 as that's when my dad died. The idea floated around lower North Main street a good ten years before anything like taking action happened.

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[SWOH]

Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant

Sorry, no, not 1991. Elizabeth did her talking and agitating somewhere around 1978. She held that priority board seat for many years. either personally or through her husband. I quit running around about 1981 as that's when my dad died. The idea floated around lower North Main street a good ten years before anything like taking action happened.

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Where is your proof?

Dayton Sux thoroughly backed up the fact that the gates were installed due to crime through many facts and links to outside resources which prove this is the case. You have not.

If your argument was true, it would be interesting... I could see the potential for a need to control traffic. But you have given me no reason whatsoever to believe you. Where are your facts?

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by OHKID

Where is your proof?

Dayton Sux thoroughly backed up the fact that the gates were installed due to crime through many facts and links to outside resources which prove this is the case. You have not.

If your argument was true, it would be interesting... I could see the potential for a need to control traffic. But you have given me no reason whatsoever to believe you. Where are your facts?

You want a picture of a potted tree that temporarily blocked a street in McPherson Town in something like 1978? Well, there just might be something out there that might back it up, but I'm not about to go look for it.

Five Oaks was sort of created out of two areas of the city. One chunk of it (45406) got it's mail out of the Dayton View post office even though it was east of Salem and the rest of it (45405) got it's mail from the Riverdale post office. All of that ritzy (and often moneyed) housing on Squirrel road and upper Kenilworth were technically Riverdale, but certain snooty elements of Five Oaks liked to call it Dayton View. They wouldn't acknowledge something respectable "down the hill" if their life depended on it then, and I doubt it now. The lady and her very high-ranking black husband divorced something like thirty years ago and she moved to Wilmington and subsequently Florida to the best of my knowledge and if still alive would be about 80 years old. Sorry, but a signed statement is rather out of the question.

It doesn't take that much to accept something intelligent out of Riverdale. If I recall correctly both Milton Caniff and Roz Young once lived there.

[Amandarthegreat]

No, we can't get through the gates, but emergency services and the Five Oaks Board President have keys to said gates. When we have the garden tour in the summer, the gates are kept open to facilitate traffic and to make it easier for the carriage. At the neighborhood meetings, there have been discussions as to whether or not to open the gates, but each respective block has voted to keep them shut. In fact, when the plow drivers forgot to lock the gates this winter, the residents went out and taped them shut until it could be done.

[dxdtdemon]

1991 seems like about the right year, although I think I sort of have an idea of what CarpathianPeasant is talking about. I remember when I went to preschool at Beth Abraham and had friends in that area in the late 1980's that there had been randomly rotating roadblocks in that area that sometimes included potted trees, but then after a while, they became permanent.

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by dxdtdemon

1991 seems like about the right year, although I think I sort of have an idea of what CarpathianPeasant is talking about. I remember when I went to preschool at Beth Abraham and had friends in that area in the late 1980's that there had been randomly rotating roadblocks in that area that sometimes included potted trees, but then after a while, they became permanent.

Very interesting! Was this due to the crime in the area or for blocking traffic?

Also interesting that residents in Five Oaks still desire having the gates, Amandrthegreat. I never would have guessed that to be the case, because it seems it would make it a hassle to get anywhere. But I can also understand how the "cul-de-sac" feel would be desirable, too, especially for families with young children.

And CarpathianPeasant, interesting story. Never realized there was a rivalry between Dayton View and Five Oaks but it makes sense one would exist.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by OHKID

Very interesting! Was this due to the crime in the area or for blocking traffic?

Also interesting that residents in Five Oaks still desire having the gates, Amandrthegreat. I never would have guessed that to be the case, because it seems it would make it a hassle to get anywhere. But I can also understand how the "cul-de-sac" feel would be desirable, too, especially for families with young children.

And CarpathianPeasant, interesting story. Never realized there was a rivalry between Dayton View and Five Oaks but it makes sense one would exist.

An element in Five Oaks and Riverdale. It made for an extremely well-attended Five Oaks meeting and a news report when Elizabeth's husband had the idea of using an unused building near the river for some kind of mild jail.... ...Which didn't happen. (Someone might find that story fairly easily.)

[maplelady]

Just a few more questions...I seem to have srumbled on an old wound here.

I don't see how they are cul de sacs. For example, I see that Grafton is gated at both ends. If residents don't have keys how do they get in and out ?

For traffic calming purposes are there any chicanes in use in the city ?

[maplelady]

Sorry, The above should say stumbled.