Grafton Ave. and Deleware (Dayton, Forest: cul-de-sac, violent crime, houses)

[maplelady]

Why is Grafton Ave. closed off to traffic at Deleware by the church ?

Why id Grafton paved with cobbles unlike the surrounding streets ?

Grafton seems just a bit more kept up and the houses seem bigger.

[TomJones123]

There are a lot of streets blocked off on the west side, due to crime as I understand. That is a very rough part of town.

[SWOH]

Ah yes, the gates of Five Oaks. Interesting (and bad) idea.

Some streets, like Five Oaks Ave, Grafton Ave, etc. have gates. The reason why is to prevent crime from creeping in from the surrounding area. But what ultimately happened is crime continued outside the gates while also working its way inside the gates too, effectively trapping the people inside the gates. A very bad solution all the way around.

Dayton Sux probably has a lot more insight on the gates than me as well.

[maplelady]

I looked at that area because of the discussion on another recent thread about this area. The one about all of the murders in this area over the years.

Generally, gates of this nature are placed for traffic calming strtaegies. I guess in this case it is to redirect crime.

Again, I am surprised when I am told these areas are so rough because they look like decent areas, not the dense, run down housing project type areas one would expect. Some of the houses are big, well kept and have pools. Also, I do see where there have been some tear downs and a slightly Detroit empty lot look is happeneing on a much smaller scale.

Still wondering about the cobblestones .

Dayton Sux , care to educate me further ?

[Natural510]

I'm not familiar with the area, but since you mentioned Detroit, what has happened there is majestic (former) mansions which would be otherwise desirable home purchases only extend as a nice area for a couple of blocks until they run into those areas with project housing. The few really nice neighborhoods which remain are basically islands within the city and can only connect to each other by areas most people would not travel by foot, or in some cases even by car.

[maplelady]

It is such a shame in any of these cities to see these neighbourhoods bear such trauma when so many people would love to buy and live in these old areas.

I do also see gates on both ends of Rockwood and the other end of Grafton, too.

[Dayton Sux]

The gates where part of a defensible space plan for the Five Oaks neighborhood. They were not intended for traffic calming per se, but as a crime deterrent.

Defensible Space was a theory by Oscar Newman and the name of a book by him. I think they even brought Newman in as a consultant for the Five Oaks plan. You can google for the details on Defensible Space (I think there is a wiki entry on it online).

As has been said there's some question as to how sucessful this theory was in Five Oaks.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

The gates where part of a defensible space plan for the Five Oaks neighborhood. They were not intended for traffic calming per se, but as a crime deterrent.

Defensible Space was a theory by Oscar Newman and the name of a book by him. I think they even brought Newman in as a consultant for the Five Oaks plan. You can google for the details on Defensible Space (I think there is a wiki entry on it online).

As has been said there's some question as to how sucessful this theory was in Five Oaks.

Nope. traffic control.

My priority board representative friend in Middle Riverdale -- she lived on Five Oaks in the little stretch between Main and Forest -- was complaining one day about the traffic going down her street. I thought a minute and told her to get the city to move one of the potted trees from downtown to the middle of the street at either end, Main or Forest, Main being the best. There wouldn't be any cars going down her street if there was a tree sitting in the middle of it; it wouldn't cost anything much but the moving and it could easily be removed again if need be. The fact of life was, anyone familiar with the area and going north avoided the traffic light at Helena by using Five Oaks.

Some months later there was a potted tree from downtown blocking one of the streets leading into McPherson Town. A city commissioner lived there then.

Five Oaks simply got fancy about their traffic control. The thing is, if someone simply said "traffic control" the idea would have gone nowhere. You have to say something like "crime control" to sell the idea and, of course, cutting down on the traffic would cut down on some of the random crime. There was a lot of traffic through that neighborhood just from the high school. And, of course, anyone using the Ridge avenue bridge and going to or from southwest of there would likely go through the neighborhood.

[maplelady]

This really surprised me as I would have thought there was some constitutional right of citizens to drive down public streets. Do the resident of the closed streets have a key and need to stop each time and open the gate ? Do they keep going if they feel they are followed by undesireables ?

This brings to mind a lot of questions about public spaces, access, etc. Since I know noyhing of Ohio municipal laws and bylaws, I will ask someone else to comment.

[Dayton Sux]

Nope. traffic control.

Nope, it was defensible space, in Oscar Newmans own words.

In the Five Oaks community of Dayton, Ohio, during 1991, violent crimes increased by 77 percent, robberies by 77 percent, vandalism by 38 percent, and overall crime by 16 percent. Drug dealers, pimps, and prostitutes had taken over the streets with abandon. Gun shots could be heard at all times of the day and night; racing cars and blaring boom-boxes disturbed everyone's sleep. Children stayed locked up in their homes.

It was then that the city of Dayton invited me to apply the defensible space concept to the Five Oaks Community. Working with the community and city staff, we reorganized Five Oaks into 10 mini neighborhoods: cul-de-sac streets with gates to block the heavy through-traffic that had plagued the area.