Grafton Hill - Liquor License Dispute (Dayton, Mason: hardwood floors, real estate, 2013)

[SWOH]

An under-the-radar but quite interesting issue coming from Grafton Hill in today's DDN:

Oktoberfest, Greek Festival threatened in effort to save houses | www.mydaytondailynews.com


(sorry it's behind the paywall)

Quick summary:
The Masonic Temple in Grafton Hill would like to build a new kitchen and parking lot facing Grafton Ave. so they could host festivals and other events at the site. In order to do this, two historic houses would have to be demolished (36 and 52 Grafton Ave, to be specific).

Community leaders in Grafton Hill are requesting the Masonic Temple preserve and relocate the historic houses. The Masonic Temple is refusing to do that, citing costs. So now the community is attempting to make Grafton Hill a "dry" precinct, making events like OctoberFest and Grrek Fest at DAI unable to happen, in an attempt to kill the feasibility of the project.


So what do you all think? Should Grafton Hill go dry and sacrifice the festivals to save the houses? This is an issue that puts economic development and prosperity right at odds with historic preservation in the community.

[hensleya1]

I like how old houses look as much as the next guy, but you won't catch me living in one unless someone already updated it. Cast iron pipes and knob tubing are a royal pain in the butt to deal with. I appreciate the modernity.

Rant over, it's a ridiculously short-sighted move by Grafton Hill if they make the precinct go dry - they'll remove one of the few reasons people actually go there. So they'll have their historic houses all right... and nobody to go over there and enjoy them. Dayton has already lost enough in the past few years (ahem, cityfolk) to lose the Greek festival as well, which I went to last year and really enjoyed.

[SWOH]

^I kinda have to agree.... taking these festivals away from the DAI would be a blow to the institute and Grafton Hill.


What I'm wondering is how much it would cost to move these houses? I know it's not cheap, but what is the expected return on this investment for the Masonic Temple? Should they have enough profit to pay for the move?

It is important to consider all the stakeholders, and figure out a way to keep everyone as satisfied with the end result as possible. And right now in this case it looks like both are going to the extremes.


I wish people would have cared this much about 601 W Riverview directly across the street. That was a treasure.

[Natural510]

I live in a century-old home which was a gut-to-stud remodel subsidized through the NSP. They (supposedly) put well over $100k into the rehab, and sold it for $85k. Even if these houses don't get the full rehab treatment, the Masonic Temple is probably correct they would not be financially feasible to save. The neighborhood group needs to put up or shut up, either with their own money or a nonprofit who would be interested in saving the homes. Otherwise, you can't force an owner to save a building which doesn't have landmark status, especially when none of the parties involved have the resources to do so.

[wrightflyer]

This is why historic districts have drawbacks in addition to all the positive hype. But in this case, it isn't the local municipal org (the Landmarks Commission) being a thorn in the side, it is local property owners. Which usually would make me all hunky-dory.

However, when you throw in an overzealous association president that doesn't know the meaning of the word "diplomatic," it could get pretty ugly for all parties involved. What's worse is if the precedent argument actually does hold no merit (IMO, I don't know because I'm not versed in local real estate and government law), this association president could be spreading misinformation. Last thing DAI and these festivals need is to wage a crisis campaign against a bunch of preservationists that don't know what they are talking about. All because of this association president's overzealous and undiplomatic nature of conducting business.

Sure makes me not want to live in Grafton Hill, as pretty (and seemingly petty) as it is.

[RDriesenUD]

I like the way houses look, but these festivals mean more than 2 houses. If the people in the neighborhood really want to save the houses, they should be the ones to pay for all of this.

[SWOH]

Sounds like the cost of moving a house isn't too horrible:

HowStuffWorks "Costs of House Moving"


Seems like the easy solution is the Masonic Home gives the houses away free to anyone willing to pay to move them. I could see someone buying one of these houses to put out on a large lot in the countryside or in a new custom homes development. And the two houses are fairly large, by the time one of these was moved to a site the odds are it would be cheaper than building new.


Makes me wish I had money to throw around haha. I'd move them near Tipp City, and could probably flip them for $300k+ depending on the lot. With a $50k lot, no way it'd cost more than $250k to pour a new slab foundation and get the house put on top of it.

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by OHKID

Seems like the easy solution is the Masonic Home gives the houses away free to anyone willing to pay to move them. I could see someone buying one of these houses to put out on a large lot in the countryside ...

Why so far away?

Aren't there open lots right there in the neighborhood?

An alternative would be to deconstruct the houses and preserve the stuff inside that is worth saving and can be used to rehab other old houses.

There certainly appear to be more old houses in Dayton than there are potential buyers.

It just seems a shame to me to just bulldoze all of them when there are parts that can be salvaged like hardwood floors and other fixtures.

[SWOH]

^Very good points.

The only reason I'd move them far away is because I don't think the cost of moving the houses could be recouped in Grafton Hill, even with a free lot. Their values, according to Zillow, are $85k and $105k, and I figure if they're going to be put on a truck to be moved anyways, they might as well be moved to an area as an alternative to constructing a new house.


But yeah, I'd rather see them stay there too. I just don't see how the community is going to find the $100k - $200k to make it happen.

[rrtechno]

Drive the route, any route, from Grafton Hill to Tipp City sometime. See if you can find one clear enough without obstructions (trees, wires, overpasses, narrow bridges, etc.) to allow a move of that scale. Wires can be dropped, for a cost, but what about all those other things. It isn't as simple as you might think.